[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Ground Mounted Multimode (Battery) Inverters

[Ray]

It all comes down to where you install the PV disconnect.  We put it on 
the wall before the conductors enter the building or at the array, 
therefore 690 doesn't apply.  Proper signage is required indicating 
multiple power sources and listing the locations of their disconnects.

Also, this isn't just my opinion, many others on the list have said 
this, including folks involved in the code writing process, and the code 
says this.  The fact that your inspector didn't catch the note on the 
figure is to be expected, as it is not out in flashing neon lights.  It 
is however a clear statement of where 690 stops: at the PV disconnect.

Unfortunately, this is not further clarified in 2020 from what I can 
tell, so we will all continue to suffer inspectors incorrectly expecting 
690.12 on ground mounted systems.  I would politely ask your inspector 
to review that ruling with his higher ups.  We can't start setting 
precedents that are unreasonable and incorrect.  The array wiring is 
already required to be protected by either height, protective panels or 
fencing.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/13/20 1:56 PM, Christopher Warfel wrote:
>
> Ray, I spent a bit of time today with a person who inspects for 
> several state renewable energy programs and to summarize, this person 
> said the opposite of what you said, and finish saying "seems pretty 
> clear cut".  We did review three sections of 690, and one from 705.  I 
> pointed out that these are not controlled conductors as I interpret 
> them but they should have been defined.   I did not see any earlier 
> posts regarding this, so I apologize for the redundancy.
>
> On 2/13/2020 3:16 PM, Ray wrote:
>>
>> This has been discussed to death in previous Wrench strings. Just to 
>> cut to the chase:
>>
>> please review NEC 2017, Figure 690.1(b) Note:(2). /The PV system 
>> disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other 
>> systems.//
>> /
>>
>> The inverter, charge controller, batteries etc are no longer part of 
>> article 690, and are not subject to its requirements. Look at 
>> articles 705, 706, and 480 for guidance for those _/other systems/_.
>>
>> /Ray Walters/
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 2/13/20 12:55 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> A few times and my back-up with a schneider system is their rapid
>>> shutdown. In the end the inspector comes around and realizes there is
>>> little gain for an offgrid ground mounted array for fireman. You do have to
>>> educate them and if they are insistent on being a bonehead, install the RS
>>> for the inspection and then use the box for the next one or sell it.
>>>
>>>   After almost 30 years offgrid the last thing I want is something that can
>>> fault out the solar or worse when I am away. Networks can be the enemy at
>>> times. Less is more offgrid in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>>> e-mailoffgridsolar at sti.net
>>> text 209 813 0060
>>>
>>> On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 13:07:53 -0500, Christopher Warfel
>>> <cwarfel at entech-engineering.com>  wrote:
>>>> I got involved in a long discussion on Rapid Shutdown compliance for
>>>> battery multimode, grid interconnect inverters that have a ground
>>>> mounted array.  At one point, ground mounted array was not supposed to
>>>> be subject to Rapid Shutdown unless there were dc conductors on the
>>>> building.  NEC 2017 seems to say it is if conductors are 3' in or on
>>>> buildings.  The intent of Rapid Shutdown was supposed to protect fire
>>>> fighters from exposure to high dc voltage when the array was on a roof.
>>>> Every code cycle it morphs into something a little different.  Has
>>>> anyone had to confront this situation, and was this type of project
>>>> subject to Rapid Shutdown?  Thanks in advance for any clarity on this.
>>>> Chris
>>>>
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