[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Ground Mounted Multimode (Battery) Inverters

Thu Feb 13 16:57:32 EST 2020

This points out the problem of inconsistent interpretation due in part 
to conflicting or unclear language. I always like to ask how many 
basements have protection around the NM conductors running through and 
along the rafters. I know several people on CMPs are on this listserv.  
I am hoping that they can add some clear language, and not leave it to a 
footnote for implementing this aspect of the NEC.

On 2/13/2020 4:42 PM, Ray wrote:
>
> It all comes down to where you install the PV disconnect.  We put it 
> on the wall before the conductors enter the building or at the array, 
> therefore 690 doesn't apply.  Proper signage is required indicating 
> multiple power sources and listing the locations of their disconnects.
>
> Also, this isn't just my opinion, many others on the list have said 
> this, including folks involved in the code writing process, and the 
> code says this.  The fact that your inspector didn't catch the note on 
> the figure is to be expected, as it is not out in flashing neon 
> lights.  It is however a clear statement of where 690 stops: at the PV 
> disconnect.
>
> Unfortunately, this is not further clarified in 2020 from what I can 
> tell, so we will all continue to suffer inspectors incorrectly 
> expecting 690.12 on ground mounted systems.  I would politely ask your 
> inspector to review that ruling with his higher ups.  We can't start 
> setting precedents that are unreasonable and incorrect.  The array 
> wiring is already required to be protected by either height, 
> protective panels or fencing.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 2/13/20 1:56 PM, Christopher Warfel wrote:
>>
>> Ray, I spent a bit of time today with a person who inspects for 
>> several state renewable energy programs and to summarize, this person 
>> said the opposite of what you said, and finish saying "seems pretty 
>> clear cut".  We did review three sections of 690, and one from 705.  
>> I pointed out that these are not controlled conductors as I interpret 
>> them but they should have been defined.   I did not see any earlier 
>> posts regarding this, so I apologize for the redundancy.
>>
>> On 2/13/2020 3:16 PM, Ray wrote:
>>>
>>> This has been discussed to death in previous Wrench strings.  Just 
>>> to cut to the chase:
>>>
>>> please review NEC 2017, Figure 690.1(b) Note:(2). /The PV system 
>>> disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other 
>>> systems.//
>>> /
>>>
>>> The inverter, charge controller, batteries etc are no longer part of 
>>> article 690, and are not subject to its requirements.  Look at 
>>> articles 705, 706, and 480 for guidance for those _/other systems/_.
>>>
>>> /Ray Walters/
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 2/13/20 12:55 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>
>>>> A few times and my back-up with a schneider system is their rapid
>>>> shutdown. In the end the inspector comes around and realizes there is
>>>> little gain for an offgrid ground mounted array for fireman. You do have to
>>>> educate them and if they are insistent on being a bonehead, install the RS
>>>> for the inspection and then use the box for the next one or sell it.
>>>>
>>>>   After almost 30 years offgrid the last thing I want is something that can
>>>> fault out the solar or worse when I am away. Networks can be the enemy at
>>>> times. Less is more offgrid in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>>>> e-mailoffgridsolar at sti.net
>>>> text 209 813 0060
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 13:07:53 -0500, Christopher Warfel
>>>> <cwarfel at entech-engineering.com>  wrote:
>>>>> I got involved in a long discussion on Rapid Shutdown compliance for
>>>>> battery multimode, grid interconnect inverters that have a ground
>>>>> mounted array.  At one point, ground mounted array was not supposed to
>>>>> be subject to Rapid Shutdown unless there were dc conductors on the
>>>>> building.  NEC 2017 seems to say it is if conductors are 3' in or on
>>>>> buildings.  The intent of Rapid Shutdown was supposed to protect fire
>>>>> fighters from exposure to high dc voltage when the array was on a roof.
>>>>> Every code cycle it morphs into something a little different.  Has
>>>>> anyone had to confront this situation, and was this type of project
>>>>> subject to Rapid Shutdown?  Thanks in advance for any clarity on this.
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
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