[RE-wrenches] 210.8

Thu Mar 20 19:09:26 PDT 2025

Is there a different engineer you can hire to stamp this job?

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:11 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jay:
>
>
>
> 3R is for protection from falling water, like rain or dripping water.
> This is not protection against spraying water.   NEMA 4
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_enclosure_types> is for protection
> from spraying water.
>
>
>
> More random thoughts about the discussion that may or may not be relevant:
>
>
>
> ·        The original post indicated there are practical reasons not to
> proceed with the project.  Coupled with the engineers reticence it seems
> another option or some mitigation is called for.
>
>
>
> ·        To be a good engineer one must be a good communicator.  It was
> said the engineer closed off discussion.  It may be he presented his best
> case as to why not and now wants to move on.
>
>
>
> ·        If the sole objection the engineer had was based on code
> compliance, it sounds like the engineer may not have a watertight case (pun
> intended).
>
>
>
> ·        Design work is all about decision making.  I ask myself:
>
> 1.   Is it safe?
>
> 2.   Is it legal?
>
>
>
> Ideally both answers are Yes.
>
>
>
> If 1 is a No then it is time for a redesign.
>
>
>
> If 1 is Yes and 2 is No and there is no easy alternative to the design I
> try to get a waiver.  I might talk with the building department or Fire
> Marshall and make my case.
>
>
>
> ·        Maybe it’s time to think inside the box:  Could a removable
> spray hood be fitted over the pump?
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:22 AM
> *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8
>
>
>
> If the equipment is 3R outdoor rated then it should be fine. Otherwise I
> do like the partition idea.
>
>
>
> A story I recently heard from a buddy was almost exactly the same
> situation and an earthquake broke the line after the pressure pump that
> sprayed water directly into the 2 Outback vfx inverters. Killing rhem both.
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Mar 20, 2025, at 9:53 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> If there is a practical reason why something should not be done then the
> code is irrelevant.
>
>
>
> I do not like installing electrical equipment near plumbing so I get it.
> Maybe a partition or wing wall could be implemented to protect from spray
> if there is a leak?
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Lou Russo via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 8:39 AM
> *To:* Jason Szumlanski
> *Cc:* Lou Russo; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
>
>
> That is my understanding as well. But he feels strongly enough that he
> will pull out from the project if I don't comply and he does not want to
> discuss it further. It is his license so he can do what he wants to do.
>
>
>
> I have been working with him for 15 years and he is usually reasonably, so
> it makes me wonder why he is standing his ground.
>
>
>
> He does not even want to have a general discussion about 210.8.
>
>
>
> Very odd.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 11:07 AM Jason Szumlanski <
> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> 210.8 covers GFCI protection for outlets and receptacles. Hard-wired
> branch circuits and feeders of a PV and ESS system are not considered
> outlets or receptacles.
>
>
>
> If I am not mistaken, each subsection specifically mentions outlets and/or
> receptacles. Even the section about mini-splits is talking about cord and
> plug connected units, not hard-wired appliances.
>
>
>
> The entirety of 210 is for branch circuits only, so feeders would not fall
> under this section.
>
>
>
> Hopefully that helps!
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:10 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Aloha All,
>
>
>
> My engineer is pushing back on our design, which calls for a battery and
> load center to be installed within 6ft of the water pump and filter, the
> inverter is 7ft away. He is citing NEC 2020 210.8 and the need for GFCI
> protection.
>
>
>
> Now besides the practical reason for not doing this, I can not find a
> code reference preventing our proposed location for the battery and load
> center.
>
>
>
> This is for an off-grid new construction home with the PV equipment in the
> garage, using a Sol-Ark 15k and Discover Rack Mount batteries.
>
>
>
> Any input?
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
>
>
> Lou Russo
>
> Owner
>
> lou at spreesolarsystems.com
>
> Office - 808 345 6762
>
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>
> CT-34322
>
>
>
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