[RE-wrenches] 210.8

Thu Mar 20 10:11:51 PDT 2025

Jay:

3R is for protection from falling water, like rain or dripping water.  This
is not protection against spraying water.   NEMA 4
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_enclosure_types> is for protection from
spraying water.

More random thoughts about the discussion that may or may not be relevant:

·        The original post indicated there are practical reasons not to
proceed with the project.  Coupled with the engineers reticence it seems
another option or some mitigation is called for.

·        To be a good engineer one must be a good communicator.  It was
said the engineer closed off discussion.  It may be he presented his best
case as to why not and now wants to move on.

·        If the sole objection the engineer had was based on code
compliance, it sounds like the engineer may not have a watertight case (pun
intended).

·        Design work is all about decision making.  I ask myself:

1.   Is it safe?

2.   Is it legal?

Ideally both answers are Yes.

If 1 is a No then it is time for a redesign.

If 1 is Yes and 2 is No and there is no easy alternative to the design I
try to get a waiver.  I might talk with the building department or Fire
Marshall and make my case.

·        Maybe it’s time to think inside the box:  Could a removable spray
hood be fitted over the pump?

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985

*From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:22 AM
*To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8

If the equipment is 3R outdoor rated then it should be fine. Otherwise I do
like the partition idea.

A story I recently heard from a buddy was almost exactly the same situation
and an earthquake broke the line after the pressure pump that sprayed water
directly into the 2 Outback vfx inverters. Killing rhem both.

Jay

On Mar 20, 2025, at 9:53 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Friends:

If there is a practical reason why something should not be done then the
code is irrelevant.

I do not like installing electrical equipment near plumbing so I get it.
Maybe a partition or wing wall could be implemented to protect from spray
if there is a leak?

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985

*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Lou Russo via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 8:39 AM
*To:* Jason Szumlanski
*Cc:* Lou Russo; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8

Jason,

That is my understanding as well. But he feels strongly enough that he will
pull out from the project if I don't comply and he does not want to discuss
it further. It is his license so he can do what he wants to do.

I have been working with him for 15 years and he is usually reasonably, so
it makes me wonder why he is standing his ground.

He does not even want to have a general discussion about 210.8.

Very odd.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 11:07 AM Jason Szumlanski <
jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

210.8 covers GFCI protection for outlets and receptacles. Hard-wired branch
circuits and feeders of a PV and ESS system are not considered outlets or
receptacles.

If I am not mistaken, each subsection specifically mentions outlets and/or
receptacles. Even the section about mini-splits is talking about cord and
plug connected units, not hard-wired appliances.

The entirety of 210 is for branch circuits only, so feeders would not fall
under this section.

Hopefully that helps!

Jason Szumlanski

Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956

Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:10 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Aloha All,

My engineer is pushing back on our design, which calls for a battery and
load center to be installed within 6ft of the water pump and filter, the
inverter is 7ft away. He is citing NEC 2020 210.8 and the need for GFCI
protection.

Now besides the practical reason for not doing this, I can not find a code
reference preventing our proposed location for the battery and load center.

This is for an off-grid new construction home with the PV equipment in the
garage, using a Sol-Ark 15k and Discover Rack Mount batteries.

Any input?

Aloha,

Lou Russo

Owner

lou at spreesolarsystems.com

Office - 808 345 6762

Spree Solar Systems LLC

CT-34322

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