[RE-wrenches] SMA, Flexible stranded Connectors, Sleep Deprivation

Dave Click daveclick at fsec.ucf.edu
Wed Apr 30 11:56:41 PDT 2014


This may be useful:
http://www.cobrawire.com/lugs/lugs.php?cat=xflex




On 2014/4/30, 14:25, William Miller wrote:
> Ray:
>
> Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line an 
> email contact and part number I need to order for 4/0.
>
> Miller Solar
>
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com 
> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>> wrote:
>
>> What I'm finding in my research is that most of the manufacturers are 
>> just not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the use of fine 
>> stranded cable is increasing dramatically.
>> ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand 
>> ratings.  I have their catalogs in hand.  Even the SMA manual does 
>> not mention this issue, I had to call tech support.
>> BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex 
>> cable directly.  Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I 
>> torqued down, and didn't like, which lead to all this:
>> Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all.
>> How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann 
>> breakers in Trace DC boxes?
>>
>> Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the flex 
>> cable, and ask if the connectors are rated for fine stranding, all 
>> you get is that "deer in the headlights" stare.
>> I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of solar, 
>> but now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming to be a 
>> solar expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just walk in 
>> and get the parts I need for a Code compliant installation.  If you 
>> sell the inverter and the cable, you really should stock the connector.
>>
>> On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as 
>> confirmed by Schneider.  Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper than 
>> pin adapters, and don't take up extra room in the wiring 
>> compartment.  Now I just have to find some TODAY.  Ugh...
>>
>> And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night.
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>>> There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded
>>> conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required
>>> equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC).
>>>
>>> Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use.
>>> Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is  necessary to produce a compliant
>>> installation (per 110.3(B)).
>>>
>>> -Glenn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors
>>>
>>> Hi ray
>>>
>>> As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded
>>> wire.
>>>   Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and
>>> ends says its UL for fine stranded.
>>>
>>> I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters.
>>> (Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with
>>> ferrules)
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Peltz power
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters<ray at solarray.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All;
>>>>
>>>> In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of
>>> horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with
>>> Cobra X flex cable.
>>>> While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech
>>> support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated
>>> for flex or fine stranded cable.
>>>> Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.
>>> Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.
>>>>  From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on
>>>> pigtail adapter.  It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the
>>> crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over
>>> sized cables into smaller lugs.  (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've
>>> found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the
>>> wire, right in the connection:
>>>> http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio
>>>> n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx
>>>> I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs:
>>>> http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03
>>>> 01.pdf
>>>>
>>>> So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them?
>>>> The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail
>>>> adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch)
>>>>
>>>> On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no
>>> adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles
>>> 690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?
>>>> And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated?
>>>> For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs:
>>>> http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html
>>>> I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman
>>> breakers with that stiff a wire.  I've cracked breaker cases
>>> before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.
>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> R.Ray Walters
>>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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