[RE-wrenches] SMA, Flexible stranded Connectors, Sleep Deprivation

Wed Apr 30 12:20:01 PDT 2014

I saw this last night, but I have plenty of lugs from Quick cable that 
work fine.  It was the sleeve to go into a mechanical connection that 
isn't listed.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/30/2014 12:56 PM, Dave Click wrote:
> This may be useful:
> http://www.cobrawire.com/lugs/lugs.php?cat=xflex
>
>
>
>
> On 2014/4/30, 14:25, William Miller wrote:
>> Ray:
>>
>> Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line 
>> an email contact and part number I need to order for 4/0.
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com 
>> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> What I'm finding in my research is that most of the manufacturers 
>>> are just not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the use of 
>>> fine stranded cable is increasing dramatically.
>>> ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand 
>>> ratings.  I have their catalogs in hand.  Even the SMA manual does 
>>> not mention this issue, I had to call tech support.
>>> BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex 
>>> cable directly.  Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I 
>>> torqued down, and didn't like, which lead to all this:
>>> Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all.
>>> How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann 
>>> breakers in Trace DC boxes?
>>>
>>> Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the flex 
>>> cable, and ask if the connectors are rated for fine stranding, all 
>>> you get is that "deer in the headlights" stare.
>>> I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of 
>>> solar, but now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming to 
>>> be a solar expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just walk 
>>> in and get the parts I need for a Code compliant installation.  If 
>>> you sell the inverter and the cable, you really should stock the 
>>> connector.
>>>
>>> On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as 
>>> confirmed by Schneider.  Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper 
>>> than pin adapters, and don't take up extra room in the wiring 
>>> compartment.  Now I just have to find some TODAY.  Ugh...
>>>
>>> And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night.
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>>>> There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded
>>>> conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required
>>>> equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC).
>>>>
>>>> Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use.
>>>> Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is  necessary to produce a compliant
>>>> installation (per 110.3(B)).
>>>>
>>>> -Glenn
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
>>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors
>>>>
>>>> Hi ray
>>>>
>>>> As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded
>>>> wire.
>>>>   Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and
>>>> ends says its UL for fine stranded.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters.
>>>> (Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with
>>>> ferrules)
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> Peltz power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters<ray at solarray.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All;
>>>>>
>>>>> In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of
>>>> horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with
>>>> Cobra X flex cable.
>>>>> While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech
>>>> support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated
>>>> for flex or fine stranded cable.
>>>>> Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.
>>>> Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.
>>>>>  From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on
>>>>> pigtail adapter.  It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the
>>>> crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over
>>>> sized cables into smaller lugs.  (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've
>>>> found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the
>>>> wire, right in the connection:
>>>>> http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio
>>>>> n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx
>>>>> I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs:
>>>>> http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03
>>>>> 01.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them?
>>>>> The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail
>>>>> adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch)
>>>>>
>>>>> On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no
>>>> adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles
>>>> 690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?
>>>>> And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated?
>>>>> For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs:
>>>>> http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html
>>>>> I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman
>>>> breakers with that stiff a wire.  I've cracked breaker cases
>>>> before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.
>>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> R.Ray Walters
>>>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
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