[RE-wrenches] SMA, Flexible stranded Connectors, Sleep Deprivation

Wed Apr 30 11:25:54 PDT 2014

Ray:

Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line an email contact and part number I need to order for 4/0. 

Miller Solar

> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
> 
> What I'm finding in my research is that most of the manufacturers are just not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the use of fine stranded cable is increasing dramatically.
> ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand ratings.  I have their catalogs in hand.  Even the SMA manual does not mention this issue, I had to call tech support.
> BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex       cable directly.  Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I torqued down, and didn't like, which lead to all this:
> Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all.
> How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann breakers in Trace DC boxes?
> 
> Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the flex cable, and ask if the connectors are rated for fine stranding, all you get is that "deer in the headlights" stare.
> I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of solar, but now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming to be a solar expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just walk in and get the parts I need for a Code compliant installation.  If you sell the inverter and the cable, you really should stock the connector.
> 
> On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as confirmed by Schneider.  Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper than pin adapters, and don't take up extra room in the wiring compartment.  Now I just have to find some TODAY.  Ugh...
> 
> And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night.  
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>> There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded
>> conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required
>> equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC).
>> 
>> Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use.
>> Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is  necessary to produce a compliant
>> installation (per 110.3(B)).
>> 
>> -Glenn
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors
>> 
>> Hi ray
>> 
>> As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded
>> wire. 
>>  Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and
>> ends says its UL for fine stranded. 
>> 
>> I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters. 
>> (Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with
>> ferrules)
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> Peltz power
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi All;
>>>> 
>>>> In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of
>>> horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with
>>> Cobra X flex cable.
>>> While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech
>> support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated
>> for flex or fine stranded cable.
>>> Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.
>> Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.
>>> From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on 
>>> pigtail adapter.  It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the
>> crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over
>> sized cables into smaller lugs.  (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've
>> found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the
>> wire, right in the connection:
>>> http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio
>>> n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx
>>> I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs:
>>> http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03
>>> 01.pdf
>>> 
>>> So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them?
>>> The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail 
>>> adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch)
>>> 
>>> On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no
>> adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles
>> 690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?
>>> And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated?
>>> For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs: 
>>> http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html
>>> I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman
>> breakers with that stiff a wire.  I've cracked breaker cases
>> before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.
>>> Thanks for your help,
>>> 
>>> --
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
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