<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Ray:</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line an email contact and part number I need to order for 4/0. <br><br>Miller Solar</div><div><br>On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">What I'm finding in my research is that
most of the manufacturers are just not keeping up with this
requirement, meanwhile the use of fine stranded cable is
increasing dramatically.<br>
ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand
ratings. I have their catalogs in hand. Even the SMA manual does
not mention this issue, I had to call tech support.<br>
BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex
cable directly. Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I
torqued down, and didn't like, which lead to all this:<br>
Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all.<br>
How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann
breakers in Trace DC boxes?<br>
<br>
Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the
flex cable, and ask if the connectors are rated for fine
stranding, all you get is that "deer in the headlights" stare.<br>
I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of
solar, but now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming
to be a solar expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just
walk in and get the parts I need for a Code compliant
installation. If you sell the inverter and the cable, you really
should stock the connector.<br>
<br>
On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as
confirmed by Schneider. Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper
than pin adapters, and don't take up extra room in the wiring
compartment. Now I just have to find some TODAY. Ugh...<br>
<br>
And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night. <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:007101cf6492$a6a83cc0$f3f8b640$@burt@glbcc.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded
conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required
equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC).
Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use.
Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is necessary to produce a compliant
installation (per 110.3(B)).
-Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors
Hi ray
As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded
wire.
Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and
ends says its UL for fine stranded.
I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters.
(Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with
ferrules)
Jay
Peltz power
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><ray@solarray.com></a> wrote:
Hi All;
In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with
Cobra X flex cable.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated
for flex or fine stranded cable.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on
pigtail adapter. It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over
sized cables into smaller lugs. (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've
found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the
wire, right in the connection:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio">http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio</a>
n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx
I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03">http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03</a>
01.pdf
So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them?
The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail
adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch)
On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles
690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated?
For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html">http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html</a>
I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">breakers with that stiff a wire. I've cracked breaker cases
before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks for your help,
--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
_______________________________________________
</pre>
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