[RE-wrenches] NABCEP

Sat May 26 07:00:13 PDT 2012

Tom, et al,

Well said.

It's not just certification that is a business (and often a sleazy and 
opportunistic motivated one at that), EDUCATION is, today, a business.

Why does the manufacturer often charge for instruction on how to 
properly install their specific equipment? May I suggest $$$ and a 
misconception of what a bad install costs in terms of lost good will the 
end user could have provided that brand (and the trade in general). In 
many occupations there is a requirement for continuing education for 
continued certification. The involved, dedicated, and responsible person 
is doing this anyway. The supply chain is complicit in this 
misconception, too.

You might also ask why NABCEP doesn't even _address_ solar hot air. 
Would we be able to get that answer from the horse's mouth first-hand?

Respectfully,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

On 24-May-12 7:09 PM, Tom Duffy wrote:
>
> Certification is just a business, whether it's for computer Techs or 
> Solar Installers, and they seem to be entities unto themselves. I have 
> heard all the arguments for certs, but like you said some folks don't 
> test well but are knowledgeable others test well but are clueless as 
> to practical applications.
>
> Back a decade or so ago I taught Computer Tech certification (A+) at 
> our local university. In one class that I taught I had 23 network 
> admins (Employed as such) and managing large networks. Only three 
> tested and one passed. The point is all were capable network admins.
>
> The real question is... how does one prove their expertise? Especially 
> to the general public. I have seen some real nightmarish off grid 
> systems setup by NABCEP installers and Non-NABCEP as well. It is a 
> problem and though I don't believe in certification, I also don't have 
> an alternative suggestion either.
>
> **
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Tom Duffy
>
> Senior Solar Design Engineer
>
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>
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> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP
>
> NABCEP has been a strangely quiet subject on this forum. FYI - I 
> checked with our honorable moderator prior to posting this.
>
> If we are attempting to expand the field of "certified" installer and 
> designers why is NABCEP run the way it is?
>
> Getting the NABCEP cert and living in w.CO has been a virtual 
> nightmare & living where I do and having to travel 7 hours each way, 
> stay in a hotel etc, this is a joke. I may be in the minority but 
> point to make here. Beyond that I became a wrench because I do not 
> test well [avoided a 4 year degree] yet I can outline a schematic for 
> electrical or plumbing in my head and build it the first time correctly.
>
> The test schedule and availability - NABCEP needs to open up to local 
> proctoring, libraries, schools, etc.
>
> 2 tests a Year? Electricians can re- test 24 or 48 hours? later and 
> use a variety of resources. Why can we not?
>
> When an electrician tests they get their results as they walk out of 
> the test room.  Why do we have to wait 6 weeks?
>
> The NEC book is the only reference  material at the test when is not 
> doing a trade about knowing your resources and utilizing them? From 
> what I understand any number of professions and trades get to use 
> several resource books. You would think we were going to be secret 
> agents or the like.
>
> I have done off grid for 24 years. Most NABCEP folk who are GT only 
> have not a clue as to battery based design and should not be allowed 
> to do the same.
>
> I am "certified" and probably very competent up to 50KW would be just 
> fine but 100KW or 1MW? This is probably not a brilliant idea without a 
> backup coach.
>
> Questions on 3 phase on the test? I would ask my licensed master 
> electrician yet we are asked several questions on 3 phase. I have 
> asked masters and they have had to go look up the answer.
>
> I would suggest a basic GT cert up to 50KW with a supplemental for 
> >50kw and a separate adder for off grid. Tests every 2 month or on a 
> scheduled basis with you local librarian
>
> I fly my NABCEP cert in the bathroom and upside down. It is in 
> distress, stinks, and needs help. The re-wrenches is strangely silent 
> on this much damaged product called certification.
>
> I see some major issues and would like to start a discussion about how 
> it is managed.
>
> I think it needs rethinking.
>
> Thanks for considering & your opinion?
>
> Dana Orzel -  Great Solar Works, Inc -  E - *dana at solarwork.com 
> <mailto:dana at solarwork.com>* -  V *970.626.5253*
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