[RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro

Mark Dickson Mark at OasisMontana.com
Tue Aug 25 06:41:31 PDT 2009


Keith,

This has been a novel idea that I have heard many times lately, but it just
does not pencil out--maybe on the utility scale, but not on the micro-hydro
scale.

Take for instance my micro-hydro scenario.  I have a 75’ head with a Stream
Engine at the bottom with two ½” nozzles. When both nozzles are fully open I
have about 80gpm flowing through the system.  This results in ~670 watts
before wire, battery and inverter losses.

 

Now take away my stream and design a solar pump system.  I could put in a
Lorentz PS1800 system with a 1600watt array that would pump about 15,000
gallons/day (non-tracked) in the summer up the 75’ for about $12,000.  

 

15,000gallons of water (not taking evaporation into consideration) would
then run my turbine for 3.1hours, producing only 2,077 watts!

 

My four L16s that I use as a “buffer” have more storage than that.

 

I think our best bet it to hold off for some reasonable flow-batteries or
the fuel cell.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark Dickson

Oasis Montana Inc.

 

 

  _____  

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David
Palumbo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 7:44 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro

 

Hi Keith,

 

That is my place. Hydro pond is both spring fed and fed by a small seasonal
brook, no pumping.

 

I figure approximately  50% to55% efficiency for a high head micro-hydro
turbine (Harris PM), not including, wire, batteries and inverter losses. I
do not know the efficiency of larger turbines. Check with Canyon Industries
(they advertise in Home Power). I’ve heard that they are significantly
higher in efficiency (before transmission losses).

 

I have heard that at least one larger scale hydro facility in NY State pumps
back to the reservoir overnight at off peak rates, then releases generation
water during peak rate periods. Also, Hydro Quebec buys off peak power from
the U.S. grid when it’s dirt cheap to power Montreal overnight. This saves
some of their own water power for selling  to  the States during peak
periods. A nice money making deal for Quebec. So, your idea is worth
thinking about for regions such as Hawaii I believe.

 

Dave

 

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Keith Cronin
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:43 PM
To: RE-Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro

 

Hi

Have any of you considered using PV to pump water to a holding area and
releasing it and capturing the kinetic energy via a pelton wheel/hydro?

If so, what do we think are the efficiencies and value of doing such a
project are? Meaning, back of the napkin, PV is + - 77% efficient, minus "x"
to pump the water to "x" elevation and the net result of the hydro = "____%
efficient"

It would be using the reservoir as the battery.

There is approximately 300' of elevation from the PV system and water source
to the reservoir area.

I recall about 15 years ago, I visited a member on this lists Vermont home
and he had a pond at the top of his property, but i don't recall how the
source got to the reservoir? Might have been naturally fed?

Anyway, the premise is, as grid access becomes more difficult to do, as the
utility infrastructure gets saturated, what are our options for folks that
want PV, but are limited in how much they are allowed to connect to the
grid, without an interconnection study by a 3rd party to increase the
comfort of the utility to have more non firm resources on their grid. We are
seeing this happen here now and I was wondering if any of you have
encountered this or are anticipating this in your areas?

Any suggestions, calcs, recommendations, feedback would be appreciated. 

Keith

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