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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Keith,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This has been a novel idea that I have
heard many times lately, but it just does not pencil out--maybe on the utility
scale, but not on the micro-hydro scale.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Take for instance my micro-hydro
scenario. I have a 75’ head with a Stream Engine at the bottom with two ½”
nozzles. When both nozzles are fully open I have about 80gpm flowing through
the system. This results in ~670 watts before wire, battery and inverter
losses.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Now take away my stream and design a solar
pump system. I could put in a Lorentz PS1800 system with a 1600watt array that
would pump about 15,000 gallons/day (non-tracked) in the summer up the 75’
for about $12,000. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>15,000gallons of water (not taking
evaporation into consideration) would then run my turbine for 3.1hours,
producing only 2,077 watts!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My four L16s that I use as a “buffer”
have more storage than that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think our best bet it to hold off for
some reasonable flow-batteries or the fuel cell.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Mark </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Dickson</span></font><font size=2
color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Oasis Montana
Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>David Palumbo<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 24, 2009 7:44
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar
and pumped hydro</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Hi Keith,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>That is my place.
Hydro pond is both spring fed and fed by a small seasonal brook, no pumping.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I figure
approximately 50% to55% efficiency for a high head micro-hydro turbine
(Harris PM), not including, wire, batteries and inverter losses. I do not know
the efficiency of larger turbines. Check with Canyon Industries (they advertise
in Home Power). I’ve heard that they are significantly higher in
efficiency (before transmission losses).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I have heard that at
least one larger scale hydro facility in NY State pumps back to the reservoir
overnight at off peak rates, then releases generation water during peak rate
periods. Also, Hydro Quebec buys off peak power from the U.S. grid when it’s
dirt cheap to power Montreal overnight. This saves some of their own water
power for selling to the States during peak periods. A nice money
making deal for Quebec. So, your idea is worth thinking about for regions such
as Hawaii I believe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Keith Cronin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 24, 2009 2:43
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-Wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [RE-wrenches] Solar and
pumped hydro<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi<br>
<br>
Have any of you considered using PV to pump water to a holding area and
releasing it and capturing the kinetic energy via a pelton wheel/hydro?<br>
<br>
If so, what do we think are the efficiencies and value of doing such a project
are? Meaning, back of the napkin, PV is + - 77% efficient, minus "x"
to pump the water to "x" elevation and the net result of the hydro =
"____% efficient"<br>
<br>
It would be using the reservoir as the battery.<br>
<br>
There is approximately 300' of elevation from the PV system and water source to
the reservoir area.<br>
<br>
I recall about 15 years ago, I visited a member on this lists Vermont home and
he had a pond at the top of his property, but i don't recall how the source got
to the reservoir? Might have been naturally fed?<br>
<br>
Anyway, the premise is, as grid access becomes more difficult to do, as the
utility infrastructure gets saturated, what are our options for folks that want
PV, but are limited in how much they are allowed to connect to the grid,
without an interconnection study by a 3rd party to increase the comfort of the
utility to have more non firm resources on their grid. We are seeing this
happen here now and I was wondering if any of you have encountered this or are
anticipating this in your areas?</span></font><font size=2 color="#007f40"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#007F40'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
Any suggestions, calcs, recommendations, feedback would be appreciated.</span></font><font
size=2 color="#007f40" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#007F40'> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
Keith</span></font><font size=2 color="#007f40" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#007F40'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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