[RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro

Keith Cronin electrichi01 at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 25 01:11:05 PDT 2009


Hello David

Yes, I know it was, just wanted to see if you were paying attention :)/. I recall it was 1993. (Great tour, property, family and environment. Still have the pictures!)

Yes, the levelized cost of electricity, when computing a host of variants, it seems a pumped hydro opportunity can exist for specific cases.
Spinning reserve here is like most places, in the hours when most of us are sleeping. Our peak is generally 5-9pm, when folks arrive home and do domestic activities.
We eventually will see tiered rates here and penalization for using power when its needed the most. Perhaps this will be the opportune time to deploy the pv-hydro application in instances where it is less expensive than grid power or when grid access becomes unavailable. I hope in our career lifetime, we don't loose this inalienable right to make our own electricity, or at least be offered the ability to do retail wheeling and send it to a neighbor for a negotiated fee. It needs to be more democratic like the internet. Pay the utility to be the toll booth and they can make $ maintaining the infrastructure and garnishing a few pennies on the delta of the cost structure.

Storage is the holy grail.........

Thanks to all for the hydro feedback.




________________________________
From: David Palumbo <dave at independentpowerllc.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:43:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro

 
Hi Keith,
 
That is my place. Hydro pond is both spring fed and fed by a small
seasonal brook, no pumping.
 
I figure approximately  50% to55% efficiency for a high
head micro-hydro turbine (Harris PM), not including, wire, batteries and
inverter losses. I do not know the efficiency of larger turbines. Check with
Canyon Industries (they advertise in Home Power). I’ve heard that they
are significantly higher in efficiency (before transmission losses).
 
I have heard that at least one larger scale hydro facility in NY
State pumps back to the reservoir overnight at off peak rates, then releases
generation water during peak rate periods. Also, Hydro Quebec buys off peak
power from the U.S. grid when it’s dirt cheap to power Montreal overnight.
This saves some of their own water power for selling  to  the States
during peak periods. A nice money making deal for Quebec. So, your idea is
worth thinking about for regions such as Hawaii I believe.
 
Dave
 
From:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Keith
Cronin
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:43 PM
To: RE-Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro
 
Hi

Have any of you considered using PV to pump water to a holding area and
releasing it and capturing the kinetic energy via a pelton wheel/hydro?

If so, what do we think are the efficiencies and value of doing such a project
are? Meaning, back of the napkin, PV is + - 77% efficient, minus "x"
to pump the water to "x" elevation and the net result of the hydro =
"____% efficient"

It would be using the reservoir as the battery.

There is approximately 300' of elevation from the PV system and water source to
the reservoir area.

I recall about 15 years ago, I visited a member on this lists Vermont home and
he had a pond at the top of his property, but i don't recall how the source got
to the reservoir? Might have been naturally fed?

Anyway, the premise is, as grid access becomes more difficult to do, as the
utility infrastructure gets saturated, what are our options for folks that want
PV, but are limited in how much they are allowed to connect to the grid,
without an interconnection study by a 3rd party to increase the comfort of the
utility to have more non firm resources on their grid. We are seeing this
happen here now and I was wondering if any of you have encountered this or are
anticipating this in your areas?

Any suggestions, calcs, recommendations, feedback would be appreciated.

Keith
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