[RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4448AE Compatibility Question

Tue Feb 10 18:22:06 PST 2009

As an old Ham Radio Operator, it would seem the solution is very simple.
First, I assume that the voltage is compliant and so is the frequency. The
problem is high frequency noise (hash from the switching circuitry) on the
waveform that has not been filtered out. Figure out the switching frequency
and get a low-pass filter whose cutoff is below the switching frequency but
above 60 Hz. Make sure the filter is rated for the load, but since we're
taking about a burner control/igniter, we're talking low-power, correct?
LPFs are low-cost commodity items, probably in DigiKey or similar catalogs.

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parrish at calsolareng.com 

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From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Katz
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:31 PM
To: allan at positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4448AE Compatibility Question

Hi Allan,
This is not an unusual problem.  i have seen it with conventional forced air
heating systems.  The burner controls would not run on A Xantrex or Outback
sine wave inverter.  There is something about waveforms from inverters
designed by Trace legacy engineers.  I had to put in Exeltech or Studer
inverters to operate the heating control system.  you can do this and still
run larger pumps and fans on the Magnum.
David

David Katz

President

AEE Solar

1155 Redway Drive

P.O. Box 339

Redway, CA  95560

Tel (707) 825-1200

Fax (707) 825-1202

david at aeesolar.com

www.aeesolar.com

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Allan Sindelar wrote: 

Wrenches,
We have an unusual problem, and I need to know if anyone else has had this
or a related problem, and what to do about it.
This concerns a new off-grid residential system, very conventional: 1,800W
PV, Midnite E-Panel with Magnum MS4448-AE inverter, MX60, 16 S-460s,
installed summer 2008. This existing home is being extensively remodeled,
and the home is not yet occupied. A local mechanical contractor installed a
new infloor radiant (gypcrete) hydronic heating system using a
Netherlands-made (German company) Buderus GB142 high-efficiency boiler. The
problem is that the boiler won't start reliably on the inverter. It appears
that the hot-surface igniter does not get full AC voltage (it runs on
straight 120V AC, but is supplied through the boiler's control circuitry).
We tested the igniter by disconnecting it and plugging it straight into
inverter AC and it lit right up. 
The mechanical contractor has tried a replacement Buderus GB142 boiler with
the same result. I was told that they brought out a generator and it also
failed to ignite on generator AC, but not knowing the generator used or the
way it was wired (I believe an extension cord to a portable) I don't put
much weight on this data. They also took a Lochinvar Boiler to the site to
test the theory that a different manufacturer's boiler might work. The
Lochinvar boiler, which uses a different control and a spark ignition rather
than a hot surface igniter, worked on site without any problems.
I'm looking for solutions. Magnum tech support had not heard of this. Have
you? 
Also, if indeed we have an inverter that is incapable of running this load,
how do we make it right to the homeowner and the mechanical contractor? What
should be Magnum's obligation? What should be ours? This issue hasn't come
up here since the days when the Trace SW mod-sine series was the waveform
standard.
Thanks,
Allan Sindelar
allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com  <mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
<mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com> 
NABCEP certified solar PV installer
Positive Energy, Inc.
3225A Richards Lane
Santa Fe NM 87507
505 424-1112

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