[RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4448AE Compatibility Question

Tue Feb 10 22:03:12 PST 2009

Peter Parrish wrote:
>
> As an old Ham Radio Operator, it would seem the solution is very 
> simple. First, I assume that the voltage is compliant and so is the 
> frequency. The problem is high frequency noise (hash from the 
> switching circuitry) on the waveform that has not been filtered out. 
> Figure out the switching frequency and get a low-pass filter whose 
> cutoff is below the switching frequency but above 60 Hz. Make sure the 
> filter is rated for the load, but since we’re taking about a burner 
> control/igniter, we’re talking low-power, correct? LPFs are low-cost 
> commodity items, probably in DigiKey or similar catalogs.
>
> - Peter
>

This may be true about high frequency switching interfering with 
something, but I believe the problem with this ignitor
is that it is a very poor design. Judging by what I read on their 
company forum, it doesn't look like they have a clue about
this problem. Maybe you can go inside the Buderus and filter something 
there or maybe you can fine another product to try ?

boB

> Peter T. Parrish, President
> California Solar Engineering, Inc.
> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
> peter.parrish at calsolareng.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *David Katz
> *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 9:31 PM
> *To:* allan at positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4448AE Compatibility Question
>
> Hi Allan,
> This is not an unusual problem. i have seen it with conventional 
> forced air heating systems. The burner controls would not run on A 
> Xantrex or Outback sine wave inverter. There is something about 
> waveforms from inverters designed by Trace legacy engineers. I had to 
> put in Exeltech or Studer inverters to operate the heating control 
> system. you can do this and still run larger pumps and fans on the Magnum.
> David
>
> David Katz
>
> President
>
> AEE Solar
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> Tel (707) 825-1200
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> Fax (707) 825-1202
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> david at aeesolar.com <mailto:david at aeesolar.com>
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> www.aeesolar.com <http://www.aeesolar.com>
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> Allan Sindelar wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
> We have an unusual problem, and I need to know if anyone else has had this
> or a related problem, and what to do about it.
> This concerns a new off-grid residential system, very conventional: 1,800W
> PV, Midnite E-Panel with Magnum MS4448-AE inverter, MX60, 16 S-460s,
> installed summer 2008. This existing home is being extensively remodeled,
> and the home is not yet occupied. A local mechanical contractor installed a
> new infloor radiant (gypcrete) hydronic heating system using a
> Netherlands-made (German company) Buderus GB142 high-efficiency boiler. The
> problem is that the boiler won't start reliably on the inverter. It appears
> that the hot-surface igniter does not get full AC voltage (it runs on
> straight 120V AC, but is supplied through the boiler's control circuitry).
> We tested the igniter by disconnecting it and plugging it straight into
> inverter AC and it lit right up. 
> The mechanical contractor has tried a replacement Buderus GB142 boiler with
> the same result. I was told that they brought out a generator and it also
> failed to ignite on generator AC, but not knowing the generator used or the
> way it was wired (I believe an extension cord to a portable) I don't put
> much weight on this data. They also took a Lochinvar Boiler to the site to
> test the theory that a different manufacturer's boiler might work. The
> Lochinvar boiler, which uses a different control and a spark ignition rather
> than a hot surface igniter, worked on site without any problems.
> I'm looking for solutions. Magnum tech support had not heard of this. Have
> you? 
> Also, if indeed we have an inverter that is incapable of running this load,
> how do we make it right to the homeowner and the mechanical contractor? What
> should be Magnum's obligation? What should be ours? This issue hasn't come
> up here since the days when the Trace SW mod-sine series was the waveform
> standard.
> Thanks,
> Allan Sindelar
> allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com <mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com> 
> NABCEP certified solar PV installer
> Positive Energy, Inc.
> 3225A Richards Lane
> Santa Fe NM 87507
> 505 424-1112
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