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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>As an old Ham Radio Operator, it would seem the
solution is very simple. First, I assume that the voltage is compliant and so
is the frequency. The problem is high frequency noise (hash from the switching
circuitry) on the waveform that has not been filtered out. Figure out the
switching frequency and get a low-pass filter whose cutoff is below the switching
frequency but above 60 Hz. Make sure the filter is rated for the load, but
since we’re taking about a burner control/igniter, we’re talking
low-power, correct? LPFs are low-cost commodity items, probably in DigiKey or
similar catalogs.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>- Peter</span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Peter T. Parrish, President<br>
California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<br>
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br>
peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</span></font><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
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</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>David Katz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 09, 2009
9:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> allan@positiveenergysolar.com;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum
MS4448AE Compatibility Question</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Allan,<br>
This is not an unusual problem. i have seen it with conventional forced
air heating systems. The burner controls would not run on A Xantrex or
Outback sine wave inverter. There is something about waveforms from
inverters designed by Trace legacy engineers. I had to put in Exeltech or
Studer inverters to operate the heating control system. you can do this
and still run larger pumps and fans on the Magnum.<br>
David</span></font></p>
<link rel=themeData href="david%20sig_files/themedata.thmx">
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>David Katz</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>President</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>AEE Solar</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>1155 Redway Drive</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>P.O. Box 339</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Redway, CA 95560</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Tel (707) 825-1200</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Fax (707) 825-1202</span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><a href="mailto:david@aeesolar.com">david@aeesolar.com</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><a href="http://www.aeesolar.com">www.aeesolar.com</a></span></font></p>
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<u8:p></u8:p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <u8:p></u8:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
Allan Sindelar wrote: </span></font></p>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Wrenches,</span></font></pre><pre><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>We have an unusual problem, and I need to know if anyone else has had this</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>or a related problem, and what to do about it.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>This concerns a new off-grid residential system, very conventional: 1,800W</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>PV, Midnite E-Panel with Magnum MS4448-AE inverter, MX60, 16 S-460s,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>installed summer 2008. This existing home is being extensively remodeled,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>and the home is not yet occupied. A local mechanical contractor installed a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>new infloor radiant (gypcrete) hydronic heating system using a</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Netherlands-made (German company) Buderus GB142 high-efficiency boiler. The</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>problem is that the boiler won't start reliably on the inverter. It appears</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that the hot-surface igniter does not get full AC voltage (it runs on</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>straight 120V AC, but is supplied through the boiler's control circuitry).</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>We tested the igniter by disconnecting it and plugging it straight into</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>inverter AC and it lit right up. </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The mechanical contractor has tried a replacement Buderus GB142 boiler with</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the same result. I was told that they brought out a generator and it also</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>failed to ignite on generator AC, but not knowing the generator used or the</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>way it was wired (I believe an extension cord to a portable) I don't put</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>much weight on this data. They also took a Lochinvar Boiler to the site to</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>test the theory that a different manufacturer's boiler might work. The</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Lochinvar boiler, which uses a different control and a spark ignition rather</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>than a hot surface igniter, worked on site without any problems.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I'm looking for solutions. Magnum tech support had not heard of this. Have</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>you? </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Also, if indeed we have an inverter that is incapable of running this load,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>how do we make it right to the homeowner and the mechanical contractor? What</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>should be Magnum's obligation? What should be ours? This issue hasn't come</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>up here since the days when the Trace SW mod-sine series was the waveform</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>standard.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Allan Sindelar</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com <a
href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com></a> </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NABCEP certified solar PV installer</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Positive Energy, Inc.</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>3225A Richards Lane</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Santa Fe NM 87507</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>505 424-1112</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre><font
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wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
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color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Check out participant bios:</span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></pre></div>
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