[RE-wrenches] Well siphon?

Sat Jan 29 12:27:18 EST 2022

My $0.02… at the outlet of the pump; install a check valve, at the highest point install a tee, Top of the tee I would install a 16/18” pipe with a ball valve to use when filling the pipe & provide a dampener  to prevent air hammering, on one side of the tee install an air scoop w/ auto vent 
(one can install this at the highest point w/o the air scoop) and the other side of the tee install a vacuum breaker to prevent the pipe collapsing when water is shut off. All of these things are readily available and come in the pipe sizes you might be using.
> On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:13 PM, frenergy <frenergy at psln.com> wrote:
> 
> This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat.  In my previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the suction side of a pump which would rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe.
> 
>             In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at the highest point of the pipe.  Both ends of the pipe must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other.  Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the outside of this pipe that's drawing out of the well.  I think the physics is right but I'm not sure how practical it is.  The pipe has to be absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong.
> 
>             Now I'm really sticking my neck out.  There's gotta be an old physics teacher out there....help!
> Bill
> On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi Bill 
>> 
>> Sorry about the egg
>> 
>> Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. 
>> 
>> You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines <https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines>
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy <frenergy at psln.com> <mailto:frenergy at psln.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face.  In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved.  If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water             out of the well and up over that ridge as long as the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake.  
>>>             The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe completely, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge.  A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry.  The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well.  There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe.
>>>             I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> Feather River Solar Electric            
>>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>>> 4291 Nelson St.
>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>>> 530.284.7849
>>> CA Lic 874049
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:
>>>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe.  These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water.  
>>>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head.  (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet.  this is from memory and mine is not so good.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller <william at millersolar.com <mailto:william at millersolar.com>> wrote:
>>>> Colleagues:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head.  Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well.  The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation.  The line goes over a 1500’ ridge.  If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> William
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Miller Solar
>>>> 
>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>> 
>>>> 805-438-5600
>>>> 
>>>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
> 
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