<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">My $0.02\u2026 at the outlet of the pump; install a check valve, at the highest point install a tee, Top of the tee I would install a 16/18\u201d pipe with a ball valve to use when filling the pipe & provide a dampener to prevent air hammering, on one side of the tee install an air scoop w/ auto vent <div class="">(one can install this at the highest point w/o the air scoop) and the other side of the tee install a vacuum breaker to prevent the pipe collapsing when water is shut off. All of these things are readily available and come in the pipe sizes you might be using.<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:13 PM, frenergy <<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com" class="">frenergy@psln.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat. In my
previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not
play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with
the suction side of a pump which <i class="">would</i> rely on atmospheric
pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases
inside the pipe.</p><p class=""> In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is
filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be
filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only
air vent at the highest point of the pipe. Both ends of the pipe
must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower
than the other. Because we are not dealing with a mere 1
atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the
water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous
crushing pressure on the <u class="">outside</u> of this pipe that's
drawing out of the well. I think the physics is right but I'm not
sure how practical it is. The pipe has to be absolutely
air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong.</p><p class=""> Now I'm really sticking my neck out. There's gotta
be an old physics teacher out there....help!<br class="">
</p><p class="">Bill<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D628461A-B75D-474E-8D42-50223DD21086@gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Bill </div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">Sorry about the egg</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">Here is some actual info to confirm what I and
others have said. </div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">You cannot vacuum water any more than 33\u2019 at sea
level. </div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines</a></div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"><frenergy@psln.com></a> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">\ufeff
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class=""><p class="">OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face. In this case though,
you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas)
involved. If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid
(water), the water that's down slope of the water in the
well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water
out of the well and up over that ridge <i class="">as long as</i>
the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well
and the pipe's intake. <br class="">
</p><p class=""> The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by
pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and
the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able
to fill the pipe <i class="">completely</i>, which would require an
air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest
point of the pipe going over the ridge. A valve would also
be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the
siphon from drawing the well dry. The pipe would have to
rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being
pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the
well. There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe.<br class="">
</p><p class=""> I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working
today.</p><p class="">Bill</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049</pre><p class=""><br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl
Thayer wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAHsrUiTJg07dmyi=6n+s-Wh=YH+5zQYj4BX1PVcyfnNAuXuTqg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif;font-size:large">Yes, but if the rise is
greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head
is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a
vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the
location (elevation) and temperature of the water. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:times new
roman,serif;font-size:large">for example at 15,000 feet
the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the
water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my
high school physics, this is the scale height) so that
at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30
feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so
good.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at
3:51 PM William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" class="">
<div class="gmail-m_7610999342914707146WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class="">Colleagues:</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class="">All
of our water pumping customers to date have been
pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than
the well-head. Just now I am looking at a
system pumping to a pond that is lower than the
well-head and lower even than the bottom of the
well. The 300\u2019 well has the head at 1200\u2019
elevation and pumping to a pond at 800\u2019
elevation. The line goes over a 1500\u2019 ridge.
If there were nothing impeding the water flow,
would it not siphon to the pond?</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class="">Has
anyone seen the basic physics available being
used to advantage?</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class="">Thanks
in advance.</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class="">William</span></p><div class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,"sans-serif"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"" class="">Miller
Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"" class="">17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"" class="">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"" class=""><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,"sans-serif"" class="">CA
Lic. 773985</span></p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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