[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues

Thu Jan 20 14:25:00 EST 2022

Hi Vince and All,

Loving this insightful discussion on the technical subtleties of this 
set-up - but I'm wondering if I'm missing the Why?  What is this design 
trying to accomplish?  What were the overriding design drivers?

Is it a case of incremental design where one system needed to grow but a 
separate system was added?  Are they physically close to each other?

Are you trying to leverage the outputs so the loads have the advantage 
of both outputs simultaneously?

If you solve this one AC coupling cut-out issue - is the system then 
optimized and exactly what does that optimization accomplish?

I understand if you don't want to take the time to explain all this but 
I'm just curious - is there a useful architecture out there that I'm 
missing?

Can the PV and battery resources be combined into one system? - (perhaps 
by selling the AGMs and Radian and buying more lithium and Sol-Arks?)

Seems like control and fine tuning and troubleshooting ongoing would be 
a hassle with such complexity - but then again we sometimes work with 
what we got!

As Nick said - they are lucky to have you!  Question is how to best 
serve that design!

Best,

Jeff
> Vince McClellan <mailto:vince at solarenergydesign.com>
> January 20, 2022 at 10:32 AM
> Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery voltage 
> the next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled. I'm also 
> going to check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond to 
> high battery  voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on the 
> battery. I've always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software just responds 
> to the SOC from the BMS.
> That would be a possible connection between the freq-watt function on 
> the Sol-Ark and DC power from the solar array. I was really scratching 
> my head on where the possible connection could be between incoming DC 
> power and the freq-watt function on the Sol-Arks.
>
> Vince McClellan
> Energy Design
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> p. (541) 485-8122 <tel:%28541%29%20485-8122>  f. (541) 338-8202 
> <tel:%28541%29%20338-8202>
>
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> Pieter Huebner <mailto:pieter at offgridenterprises.org>
> January 20, 2022 at 6:41 AM
>
> Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be 
> the opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high 
> when the solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss 
> excursions you can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already 
> done so, I suggest that you closely monitor the battery voltage when 
> the solar array is charging both with and without the Radian AC 
> bussing connected.
>
> Pieter
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On 
> Behalf Of *Vince McClellan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues
>
> Thanks Pieter
>
> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. 
> Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark 
> inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array 
> that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be 
> actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is 
> inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on 
> on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the 
> two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the 
> Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter.
>
>
> Vince McClellan
>
> Energy Design
>
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>
> p. (541) 485-8122 <tel:%28541%29%20485-8122>  f. (541) 338-8202 
> <tel:%28541%29%20338-8202>
>
> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient 
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> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner 
> <pieter at offgridenterprises.org <mailto:pieter at offgridenterprises.org>> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
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> Vince McClellan <mailto:vince at solarenergydesign.com>
> January 19, 2022 at 9:15 PM
> Thanks Pieter
> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. 
> Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark 
> inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array 
> that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be 
> actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is 
> inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on 
> on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the 
> two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the 
> Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter.
>
> Vince McClellan
> Energy Design
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> p. (541) 485-8122 <tel:%28541%29%20485-8122>  f. (541) 338-8202 
> <tel:%28541%29%20338-8202>
>
> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient 
> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or 
> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited.
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>
>
>
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> Pieter Huebner <mailto:pieter at offgridenterprises.org>
> January 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM
>
> Vince, For what it is worth:
>
> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark 
> inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel 
> Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the 
> battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been 
> outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but 
> not solved the issue.  For the sites that we currently have deployed 
> for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage 
> set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS 
> shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were 
> planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K 
> inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% 
> off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a 
> different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed 
> Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to 
> the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced.
>
> Pieter
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On 
> Behalf Of *Vince McClellan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues
>
> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters?
>
> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to 
> a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue 
> Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark 
> inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on 
> the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As 
> soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the 
> Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and 
> disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are 
> below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on 
> the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay 
> connected.
>
> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this 
> system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt 
> kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian 
> inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark 
> inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem.
>
> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our 
> troubleshooting efforts next?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Vince McClellan
>
> Energy Design
>
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>
> p. (541) 485-8122 <tel:%28541%29%20485-8122>  f. (541) 338-8202 
> <tel:%28541%29%20338-8202>
>
> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient 
> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or 
> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
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> Vince McClellan <mailto:vince at solarenergydesign.com>
> January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM
> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters?
> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to 
> a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue 
> Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark 
> inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on 
> the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As 
> soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the 
> Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and 
> disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are 
> below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on 
> the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay 
> connected.
>
> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this 
> system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt 
> kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian 
> inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark 
> inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem.
>
> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our 
> troubleshooting efforts next?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince McClellan
> Energy Design
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> p. (541) 485-8122 <tel:%28541%29%20485-8122>  f. (541) 338-8202 
> <tel:%28541%29%20338-8202>
>
> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient 
> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or 
> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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