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</head><body text="#000000">Hi Vince and All,<br>
<br>
Loving this insightful discussion on the technical subtleties of this
set-up - but I'm wondering if I'm missing the Why? What is this design
trying to accomplish? What were the overriding design drivers?<br>
<br>
Is it a case of incremental design where one system needed to grow but a
separate system was added? Are they physically close to each other?<br>
<br>
Are you trying to leverage the outputs so the loads have the advantage
of both outputs simultaneously?<br>
<br>
If you solve this one AC coupling cut-out issue - is the system then
optimized and exactly what does that optimization accomplish?<br>
<br>
I understand if you don't want to take the time to explain all this but
I'm just curious - is there a useful architecture out there that I'm
missing?<br>
<br>
Can the PV and battery resources be combined into one system? - (perhaps
by selling the AGMs and Radian and buying more lithium and Sol-Arks?)<br>
<br>
Seems like control and fine tuning and troubleshooting ongoing would be a
hassle with such complexity - but then again we sometimes work with
what we got!<br>
<br>
As Nick said - they are lucky to have you! Question is how to best serve
that design!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Jeff<span></span><br>
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20, 2022 at 10:32 AM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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dir="ltr">Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery
voltage the next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled.
I'm also going to check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond
to high battery voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on
the battery. I've always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software
just responds to the SOC from the BMS. <div>That would be a possible
connection between the freq-watt function on the Sol-Ark and DC power
from the solar array. I was really scratching my head on where the
possible connection could be between incoming DC power and the freq-watt
function on the Sol-Arks. <br><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div
style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><font face="georgia,
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Design</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">NABCEP PV
Installation Professional</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">p. <a
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class="MsoNormal">Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the
issue may not be the opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss
voltage goes high when the solar array is enabled. If you are also
experiencing DC buss excursions you can trigger frequency shifting. If
you haven't already done so, I suggest that you closely monitor the
battery voltage when the solar array is charging both with and without
the Radian AC bussing connected.<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Pieter<o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img
style="width:6.5in;height:3.8125in" id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part6.46CB0331.351BFA76@villagepowerdesign.com"
name="image.png" height="366" width="624"><o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Vince McClellan<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 19,
2022 11:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues<o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks
Pieter<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">We seem to have the
opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt
regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be
actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to
the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the
Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC
power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try
using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates
the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian
inverter. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">Vince
McClellan</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">Energy
Design</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">NABCEP
PV Installation Professional</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">p. <a
href="tel:%28541%29%20485-8122" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">(541) 485-8122</span></a> f. <a
href="tel:%28541%29%20338-8202" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">(541) 338-8202</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p
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class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner <<a
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dir="ltr">Thanks Pieter<div>We seem to have the opposite problem from
what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian
inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power
from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It
is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but
that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar
array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels
on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function
of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. </div><div><br
clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div
style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><font face="georgia,
serif">Vince McClellan</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">Energy
Design</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">NABCEP PV
Installation Professional</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">p. <a
href="tel:%28541%29%20485-8122" value="+15414858122"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">(541)
485-8122</a> f. <a href="tel:%28541%29%20338-8202"
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class="MsoNormal">Vince, For what it is worth:<o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal">We have also been working on similar issues when using
multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been
that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly
regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support
has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the
severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have
deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge
voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid
BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were
planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K
inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100%
off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a
different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed
Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to
the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced.<o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal">Pieter<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img
style="width:6.5in;height:3.8125in" id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part6.46CB0331.351BFA76@villagepowerdesign.com"
name="image.png" height="366" width="624"><o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vince
McClellan<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM<br><b>To:</b>
RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b>
[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues<o:p></o:p></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Is
anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">We
haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a
new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion
batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters
accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power
from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is
significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters
freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian
inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state
of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new
solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">We
have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system
to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking
in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter.
Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we
are still experiencing the same problem. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Can
anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our
troubleshooting efforts next? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, <o:p></o:p></p></div><p
class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">Vince
McClellan</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">Energy
Design</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">NABCEP
PV Installation Professional</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#500050"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#500050">p. <a
href="tel:%28541%29%20485-8122" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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href="tel:%28541%29%20338-8202" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#1155CC">(541) 338-8202</span></a></span><span
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<a style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;" href="mailto:vince@solarenergydesign.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Vince McClellan</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">January
19, 2022 at 3:15 PM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="ltr"><div>Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark
inverters?</div><div> </div><div>We haven't been able to AC couple an
existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3,
Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have
tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian
inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the
Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from
the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a
brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion
batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we
don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will
connect and stay connected. </div><div><br></div><div>We have been
working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept
the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the
Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has
sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still
experiencing the same problem. </div><div><br></div><div>Can anyone
think of what we might be missing and where to direct our
troubleshooting efforts next? </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, </div><br
clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div
style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><font face="georgia,
serif">Vince McClellan</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">Energy
Design</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">NABCEP PV
Installation Professional</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">p. <a
href="tel:%28541%29%20485-8122" value="+15414858122"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">(541)
485-8122</a> f. <a href="tel:%28541%29%20338-8202"
value="+15413388202" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">(541) 338-8202</a></font></div></div><div
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src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HcXK0FTsJsEFDvKv-POVulmqJD3Ikpz4&revid=0B2VUQDDTFCz_aVNUUUNDRkNRUCtjc1oyZ3JFY2NvNWlJVGpvPQ"
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