[RE-wrenches] Best Battery

Ray ray at solarray.com
Mon Aug 10 15:40:22 EDT 2020 

It relates specifically to Simpliphi, but all brands of Li+ need much 
higher LBCO set points compared to Lead acid. Hysteresis and time don't 
fix the fact that once the batteries shut off before the inverter, the 
entire system is inoperable, with no charging available from the PV.  It 
creates an absolute failure, that requires a manual reset, and there is 
no reason for it.  It should be an easy firmware fix to allow LBCO to go 
above 48.  We've used other brands of inverters and had excellent 
results with extremely high efficiency charging, noticeably reduced gen 
run time, etc. We can set the autostart on the generator to start 
higher, but as soon as there is a problem with the generator, we're snow 
shoeing in to save the house.  Already done it 3 times this past Winter, 
so no, this is not a hypothetical problem.

Also, I haven't mentioned Schneider's abysmal tech support throughout 
this problem.  Zero on site phone support, but we might get a call back 
a week later, and then the tech can only read from the manual: something 
we've already done. I dropped Schneider many years ago when they brought 
out the terrible TR line of inverters. Those had 100% customer 
dissatisfaction.  They have yet to regain my support, and now after this 
latest experience, I have to refuse to even service systems with 
Schneider equipment.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/10/20 8:03 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:
>
> Hey Ray,
>
> Your comment on Schneider LBCO relates to which brand? Sympliyfi? 
> Curious because I will send this in again. I did last time and they 
> said to make sure the config person knows that you can also set the 
> default LBCO hysteresis from 2V to 10V and the LBCO time from 60 
> seconds up to 600 seconds.
>
> Zero probes here for me with Discover AES and Fortress with Schneider 
> electronics.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net 
> <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 18:47:50 -0600, Ray <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>
>> My favorite right now is Simpliphi: company has been around since 
>> 2002, and as the name implies, they are simple to install.  There is 
>> no external monitoring or comm, just an output breaker on each 
>> battery that can be reset if the internal BMS ever shuts down for any 
>> reason.  We've done several sets in new systems, and as battery 
>> replacements with older Outback equipment.  Simpliphi provides a nice 
>> programming cheat sheet for all the brands of inverters and charge 
>> controllers.
>>
>> For smaller systems, the LiFe Blue batteries are great.  They have 
>> the best monitoring (simple blue tooth to a free phone app)  and they 
>> are the only Li+ battery that has a solution for cold weather 
>> charging that I'm aware of.  Other battery companies have just given 
>> us the shoulder shrug and tell us to install the battery in a 
>> conditioned space.  Not a good answer for many off grid systems in 
>> the mountains.
>>
>> I'm not a huge fan of Blue Planet; if their battery is over 
>> discharged, it requires a 48 v dark start.  I also did not find their 
>> enclosure to be NEC code compliant to connect conduit to.  We had to 
>> modify it to allow a 2" KO. Cable routing and connections internally 
>> are also awkward. Its just a computer rack cabinet repurposed for 
>> batteries, but it does have pretty blue Lights (which we disconnected 
>> at the customer's request)  Finally the comm system is based on the 
>> E-gage, which was never designed for off grid and depends on a 
>> constant router and internet connection to monitor.  That is another 
>> deal killer for some remote projects.  Internet connectivity is great 
>> when available, just the monitoring can't be dependent on that 
>> connection.  Their tech support was good though.
>>
>> Beware that Schneider inverters LBCO can't be programmed over 48v, 
>> which is a deal killer for most Li+ batteries.  We currently have a 
>> system that we are adding a relay to shut off AC output, that will be 
>> triggered by the charge controller. That is just an amazingly kludgy 
>> solution for a really dumb problem: not allowing higher settings of 
>> the LBCO.  Until Schneider releases a firmware update, they are not 
>> even being considered for future projects.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 8/9/20 5:30 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>>> I have outback FX systems operating for years now, the lab l had 
>>> used FX's and midnite systems, it does need to be 48 volts nominal.
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:13 PM Kirk Herander <vtsolar at icloud.com 
>>> <mailto:vtsolar at icloud.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or
>>>     Blue Planet) older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion
>>>     LFP batteries. The newer FXR series are.
>>>     Considering one only needs to change slightly charge voltages,
>>>     duration, etc. to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery why
>>>     Outback states that older FX inverters are not compatible.
>>>     Outback  states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.
>>>
>>>         On 8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
>>>         <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
>>>         <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
>>>         <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and
>>>         an MX60, with
>>>         a 2600 W array.
>>>
>>>         ---
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
>>>         <mailto:drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
>>>         > Hello Wrenches,
>>>         >
>>>         > What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid
>>>         system?
>>>         >
>>>         > Thanks,
>>>         >
>>>         > Drake
>>>         > Athens Electric
>>>         >
>>>         > --
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