<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>It relates specifically to Simpliphi, but all brands of Li+ need
much higher LBCO set points compared to Lead acid. Hysteresis and
time don't fix the fact that once the batteries shut off before
the inverter, the entire system is inoperable, with no charging
available from the PV. It creates an absolute failure, that
requires a manual reset, and there is no reason for it. It should
be an easy firmware fix to allow LBCO to go above 48. We've used
other brands of inverters and had excellent results with extremely
high efficiency charging, noticeably reduced gen run time, etc.
We can set the autostart on the generator to start higher, but as
soon as there is a problem with the generator, we're snow shoeing
in to save the house. Already done it 3 times this past Winter,
so no, this is not a hypothetical problem. <br>
</p>
<p>Also, I haven't mentioned Schneider's abysmal tech support
throughout this problem. Zero on site phone support, but we might
get a call back a week later, and then the tech can only read from
the manual: something we've already done. I dropped Schneider many
years ago when they brought out the terrible TR line of inverters.
Those had 100% customer dissatisfaction. They have yet to regain
my support, and now after this latest experience, I have to refuse
to even service systems with Schneider equipment. <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/10/20 8:03 AM, Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:14211f7ebc581e35f2e9a0c6a1b9820f@127.0.0.1">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hey Ray,</p>
<p>Your comment on Schneider LBCO relates to which brand?
Sympliyfi? Curious because I will send this in again. I did last
time and they said to make sure the config person knows that you
can also set the default LBCO hysteresis from 2V to 10V and the
LBCO time from 60 seconds up to 600 seconds.</p>
<p>Zero probes here for me with Discover AES and Fortress with
Schneider electronics. </p>
<div>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
</div>
<p>On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 18:47:50 -0600, Ray <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><ray@solarray.com></a>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- html ignored -->
<!-- head ignored -->
<!-- meta ignored -->
<p>My favorite right now is Simpliphi: company has been around
since 2002, and as the name implies, they are simple to
install. There is no external monitoring or comm, just an
output breaker on each battery that can be reset if the
internal BMS ever shuts down for any reason. We've done
several sets in new systems, and as battery replacements with
older Outback equipment. Simpliphi provides a nice
programming cheat sheet for all the brands of inverters and
charge controllers.</p>
<p>For smaller systems, the LiFe Blue batteries are great. They
have the best monitoring (simple blue tooth to a free phone
app) and they are the only Li+ battery that has a solution
for cold weather charging that I'm aware of. Other battery
companies have just given us the shoulder shrug and tell us to
install the battery in a conditioned space. Not a good answer
for many off grid systems in the mountains. </p>
<p>I'm not a huge fan of Blue Planet; if their battery is over
discharged, it requires a 48 v dark start. I also did not
find their enclosure to be NEC code compliant to connect
conduit to. We had to modify it to allow a 2" KO. Cable
routing and connections internally are also awkward. Its just
a computer rack cabinet repurposed for batteries, but it does
have pretty blue Lights (which we disconnected at the
customer's request) Finally the comm system is based on the
E-gage, which was never designed for off grid and depends on a
constant router and internet connection to monitor. That is
another deal killer for some remote projects. Internet
connectivity is great when available, just the monitoring
can't be dependent on that connection. Their tech support was
good though.</p>
<p>Beware that Schneider inverters LBCO can't be programmed over
48v, which is a deal killer for most Li+ batteries. We
currently have a system that we are adding a relay to shut off
AC output, that will be triggered by the charge controller.
That is just an amazingly kludgy solution for a really dumb
problem: not allowing higher settings of the LBCO. Until
Schneider releases a firmware update, they are not even being
considered for future projects. </p>
<pre class="moz-signature">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/9/20 5:30 PM, Jerry Shafer
wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- meta ignored -->
<div dir="auto">I have outback FX systems operating for years
now, the lab l had used FX's and midnite systems, it does
need to be 48 volts nominal.
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:13
PM Kirk Herander <<a href="mailto:vtsolar@icloud.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">vtsolar@icloud.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex;
border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div id="m_-7586744081966524964__MailbirdStyleContent"
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color:
#000000;">For some reason (that I never got an answer to
from Outback or Blue Planet) older FX inverters are not
compatible with Blue Ion LFP batteries. The newer FXR
series are.
<div>Considering one only needs to change slightly
charge voltages, duration, etc. to meet BI
recommendations, it's a mystery why Outback states
that older FX inverters are not compatible. </div>
<div>Outback states this in a tech note about using LI
batteries.<br>
<blockquote style="border-left-style: solid;
border-width: 1px; margin-top: 20px; margin-left:
0px; padding-left: 10px;">
<p style="color: #aaaaaa; margin-top: 10px;">On
8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, <a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div style="font-family:
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">P.S. The system
consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an
MX60, with <br>
a 2600 W array. <br>
<br>
--- <br>
<br>
<br>
On 2020-08-09 13:12, <a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
wrote: <br>
> Hello Wrenches, <br>
> <br>
> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with
an off grid system? <br>
> <br>
> Thanks, <br>
> <br>
> Drake <br>
> Athens Electric <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
>
_______________________________________________ <br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance <br>
> <br>
> List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
> <br>
> Change listserver email address &
settings: <br>
> <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
> <br>
> List-Archive: <br>
> <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
> <br>
> List rules & etiquette: <br>
> <a
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
<br>
> <br>
> Check out or update participant bios: <br>
> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance <br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings: <br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette: <br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
<br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios: <br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>