[RE-wrenches] Best Battery

Mon Aug 10 16:24:57 EDT 2020

I have forwarded this to Schneider. They gave me a case number in 30
minutes. I disagree that "all" Li batteries need this. Obviously simplyphi
does need LBCO to be increased. The LBCO delay does help at 10 minutes from
2 minutes default BTW. 

I have not had your issues with tech support.
Certainly room to improve but not much different than Outback over the long
haul. Let us agree to disagree. I find Schneider to be the best for my
requirements, 2nd is Outback. I do not use simplyphi. They are just too
small of an offgrid battery and easy to damage with XW and Radian. My last
on this subject.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:40:22 -0600, Ray  wrote:   

It relates specifically to Simpliphi, but all brands of Li+ need much
higher LBCO set points compared to Lead acid. Hysteresis and time don't fix
the fact that once the batteries shut off before the inverter, the entire
system is inoperable, with no charging available from the PV. It creates an
absolute failure, that requires a manual reset, and there is no reason for
it. It should be an easy firmware fix to allow LBCO to go above 48. We've
used other brands of inverters and had excellent results with extremely
high efficiency charging, noticeably reduced gen run time, etc. We can set
the autostart on the generator to start higher, but as soon as there is a
problem with the generator, we're snow shoeing in to save the house.
Already done it 3 times this past Winter, so no, this is not a hypothetical
problem.  

Also, I haven't mentioned Schneider's abysmal tech support
throughout this problem. Zero on site phone support, but we might get a
call back a week later, and then the tech can only read from the manual:
something we've already done. I dropped Schneider many years ago when they
brought out the terrible TR line of inverters. Those had 100% customer
dissatisfaction. They have yet to regain my support, and now after this
latest experience, I have to refuse to even service systems with Schneider
equipment.  
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
 On 8/10/20 8:03 AM,
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:  

Hey Ray, 

Your comment on Schneider
LBCO relates to which brand? Sympliyfi? Curious because I will send this in
again. I did last time and they said to make sure the config person knows
that you can also set the default LBCO hysteresis from 2V to 10V and the
LBCO time from 60 seconds up to 600 seconds. 

Zero probes here for me with
Discover AES and Fortress with Schneider electronics.   
Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [3]
e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
[4]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 18:47:50 -0600, Ray  [5] wrote: 

My favorite right now is Simpliphi: company has been around since 2002,
and as the name implies, they are simple to install. There is no external
monitoring or comm, just an output breaker on each battery that can be
reset if the internal BMS ever shuts down for any reason. We've done
several sets in new systems, and as battery replacements with older Outback
equipment. Simpliphi provides a nice programming cheat sheet for all the
brands of inverters and charge controllers. 

For smaller systems, the LiFe
Blue batteries are great. They have the best monitoring (simple blue tooth
to a free phone app) and they are the only Li+ battery that has a solution
for cold weather charging that I'm aware of. Other battery companies have
just given us the shoulder shrug and tell us to install the battery in a
conditioned space. Not a good answer for many off grid systems in the
mountains.  

I'm not a huge fan of Blue Planet; if their battery is over
discharged, it requires a 48 v dark start. I also did not find their
enclosure to be NEC code compliant to connect conduit to. We had to modify
it to allow a 2" KO. Cable routing and connections internally are also
awkward. Its just a computer rack cabinet repurposed for batteries, but it
does have pretty blue Lights (which we disconnected at the customer's
request) Finally the comm system is based on the E-gage, which was never
designed for off grid and depends on a constant router and internet
connection to monitor. That is another deal killer for some remote
projects. Internet connectivity is great when available, just the
monitoring can't be dependent on that connection. Their tech support was
good though. 

Beware that Schneider inverters LBCO can't be programmed
over 48v, which is a deal killer for most Li+ batteries. We currently have
a system that we are adding a relay to shut off AC output, that will be
triggered by the charge controller. That is just an amazingly kludgy
solution for a really dumb problem: not allowing higher settings of the
LBCO. Until Schneider releases a firmware update, they are not even being
considered for future projects.  
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
 On
8/9/20 5:30 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:  I have outback FX systems operating
for years now, the lab l had used FX's and midnite systems, it does need to
be 48 volts nominal. Jerry  
  On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:13 PM Kirk Herander 
wrote:  For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or Blue
Planet) older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion LFP batteries.
The newer FXR series are. Considering one only needs to change slightly
charge voltages, duration, etc. to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery
why Outback states that older FX inverters are not compatible.  Outback
states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.

On 8/9/2020 5:40:39
PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org [7]  wrote: P.S. The system
consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an MX60, with 
 a 2600 W array.

 --- 

 On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org [9]
wrote: 
 > Hello Wrenches, 
 > 
 > What is the best Li-Ion battery to use
with an off grid system? 
 > 
 > Thanks, 
 > 
 > Drake 
 > Athens Electric

 > 
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