[RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Batteries
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Mon Mar 23 12:13:34 EDT 2020
That was our kludgey plan, if Schneider can't do a firmware update. The
issue I have with that, is the no load draw of the inverter is still 25
watts, so eventually it could still pull the batteries into full shutdown.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 3/23/20 10:30 AM, Kent Osterberg wrote:
> I like that approach, Jay. Great idea. It gets the job done and is
> self contained - using only the features of the inverter. The remote
> power off could still be used with another remote switch. If there
> aren't enough aux output ports in the system, one could add a
> Morningstar relay driver.
>
> None-the-less, considering that Scneider Electric has made a lot of
> firmware changes to make the inverter compatible with lithium
> batteries, it is baffling that the low battery cutout hasn't been
> addressed.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 3/22/2020 6:18 PM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi Kent,
>>
>> Yes that’s what I mean.
>>
>> According to the manual I’ve got, up to 52v for the low, 64 for the
>> high.
>> Which is high enough to do what the simpliphi needs.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Kent Osterberg <kent at coveoregon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jay,
>>>
>>> Do you mean: use the Aux relay to activate the Remote Power Off?
>>> What is the low battery setting range for the Aux relay? I don't see
>>> it in the manual.
>>>
>>> Kent Osterberg
>>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/2020 4:04 PM, Jay wrote:
>>>> Ray,
>>>> Have you heard bought about using the Aux relay to control the AC
>>>> output at what ever voltage you want?
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 22, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Ray <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the whole point: we need the LBCO to be higher than 48v to
>>>>> catch the beginning of that steep drop off, so that there is still
>>>>> enough reserve left to keep the monitoring and solar charge
>>>>> controllers in operation, and avoid the dreaded dark start. With
>>>>> Simpliphi, we don't have the dark start, but it still requires
>>>>> manual reset. This isn't theoretical, we have been having
>>>>> serious trouble with a system because of Schneider's inability to
>>>>> set the LVD above 48 v. Also setting the voltage higher (lower
>>>>> DOD) extends the cycle life of these batteries. Otherwise, I love
>>>>> the stable 51 volts of Li+, even under load.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>> On 3/22/20 4:15 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>>>>>> Wrenches
>>>>>> Don't let the LBCU scare you as this battery has such a flat SOC
>>>>>> line that when it falls off there is not much left in the tank.
>>>>>> In addition set the flex net to low SOC at 15% and critical to 10%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 12:15 PM Sindelar Solar
>>>>>> <Allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:Allan at sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specifically with Blue Ion, the installation manual
>>>>>> recommends 48V as LBCO, but also recommends setting it a bit
>>>>>> higher:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Recommended Low Voltage Disconnect Setting: 48 VDC (~2-10%
>>>>>> State of Charge)
>>>>>> BMU will power down the Blue Ion 2.0 cabinet at 44 VDC (<1%
>>>>>> State of Charge)
>>>>>> Based on system discharge patterns, SoC and voltage
>>>>>> correlations will vary.
>>>>>> We recommend you err on the side of caution with a higher LVD
>>>>>> setting and adjust as necessary.
>>>>>> To prevent a dark start event, we recommend leaving a little
>>>>>> reserve “fuel in the tank”."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have used 48VDC with success, and had one system indeed
>>>>>> shut down at 44V, leaving 1% left to reboot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/2020 12:44 PM, Ray wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blue Ion, and Simpliphi that I know of.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>> On 3/21/20 2:48 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see what you mean Ray. Sorry I misread your mail. There
>>>>>>>> are not too many batteries out there that need LBCO above
>>>>>>>> 48V. Which ones are you talking about please?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *"we go where powerlines don't"
>>>>>>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail
>>>>>>>> offgridsolar at sti.net <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net> text 209
>>>>>>>> 813 0060*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 11:18:21 -0700, Dave Angelini Offgrid
>>>>>>>> Solar <offgridsolar at sti.net> <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Ray,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which XW? There are 3 now. The old graybox XW defaults at
>>>>>>>>> 44V LBCO and the range is 40 to 48V. There also was
>>>>>>>>> firmware back in its day that got older units updated.
>>>>>>>>> Schneider still has the firmware under discontinued products.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XW+ is default 44V and adjustable 36 to 44 vdc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XW pro is running downstairs and I will take a look. It
>>>>>>>>> would be my guess that it is the same as XW+. I think one
>>>>>>>>> needs to be sure they are in Advanced settings to tweak
>>>>>>>>> LBCO also.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not plugging Schneider and have done work for both
>>>>>>>>> Outback and Schneider as well as my clients. Hope this helps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines
>>>>>>>>> don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail
>>>>>>>>> offgridsolar at sti.net <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net> text
>>>>>>>>> 209 813 0060*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 11:46:21 -0400, Ray <ray at solarray.com>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We've been having good luck with SImpliphi, the
>>>>>>>>> pricing has recently gotten much more competitive. As
>>>>>>>>> it's names states, its simple. Each 3.8 kWh unit has
>>>>>>>>> an 80 amp breaker built into the top, weigh about 75
>>>>>>>>> lbs, and are a bit smaller than an L16 but with carry
>>>>>>>>> handles. We use an insulated 2 pole combiner block to
>>>>>>>>> run all the parallel conductors to the main 2/0
>>>>>>>>> cable. No monitoring, but they do have an handy setup
>>>>>>>>> guide with recommended settings, specific for each
>>>>>>>>> manufacturer (including Outback).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Note to all: Schneider XW can still not set its LVD
>>>>>>>>> above 48, which basically makes it incompatible with
>>>>>>>>> most Li+ batteries. Their tech support has been
>>>>>>>>> abysmal as well. We're looking forward to them as
>>>>>>>>> one of the larger companies in the business, to put
>>>>>>>>> additional resources into their engineering, and come
>>>>>>>>> out with at least a firmware update to correct this
>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>>>>>> 303 505-8760
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/20/20 3:59 PM, David Katz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>>>>>>>> I am working with some people that want to use a
>>>>>>>>> 20 kw-hour to 30 kw-hour 48 volt lithium-ion
>>>>>>>>> battery with an Outback Radian and Outback FM
>>>>>>>>> charge controllers.
>>>>>>>>> They are considering using Discover, Blue-Ion,
>>>>>>>>> Battle Born or SimpliPhi batteries.
>>>>>>>>> Does any one have any recommendations of which
>>>>>>>>> battery functions best with the Outback system.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> David Katz
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Allan Sindelar*
>>>>>> allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>>>>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>>>>>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>>>>>> *505 780-2738 cell*
>>>>>>
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