[RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?

Fri Jul 26 15:59:07 EDT 2019

Wrenches
I have quite a few freq drives on single phase, the controller came from
ABB, the pic attached is reference only, it was for a AC chiller grid
connected not off grid but the controller works either way
Jerry

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 12:47 PM Jeff Clearwater <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Chris!
>
> Unfortunately I'm finding that unless you build an integrated control -
> motor combo that can soft start like Franklin did - the majority of single
> phase motors can't use soft start.  That is probably a 3-phase motor in
> that pump that they have an inverter for in the controls - or they used a
> shaded pole or spit capacitor single phase motor which can use soft start -
> at least that is what my initial research and phone call to the pump
> control company has thus far revealed.
>
> Apparently you can play with the voltage-amperage tradeoffs when you have
> the 3 magnetic fields interaction - single phase doesn't allow you much
> room to wiggle.
>
> I do see single phase soft-starts on the market - still researching but
> that's my initial findings.
>
> Anyone know differently?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> chris at OasisMontana.com wrote on 7/26/19 9:27 AM:
>
> Here at the Oasis home/office, we have a Goulds 3 hp 240VAC soft start
> pump (#18GS30, w/ Franklin motor HS09970 and #3AS30 Aquavar Solo
> controller); it’s been running off of my 2011 Radian GS8048 since 2016,
> when I had to drill a new well (the water table is dropping) and pump from
> about 300 ft. depth.  I have 3500 ft. of drip irrigation, a big garden
> and the usual domestic water loads.  It’s worked flawlessly since its
> inception, and I cannot speak more highly of Goulds pumps.  My first one
> lasted 23 years (it was a 1.5HP model).
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Chris Daum
>
> Oasis Montana Inc.
>
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>
> 406-777-4309 fax
>
> www.oasismontana.com
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On Behalf Of *Dana
> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 9:34 AM
> *To:* 'Jeff Clearwater' <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>
> <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>; 'RE-wrenches'
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?
>
>
>
> Yes I have used soft starts offgrid with SW & VFX for 15+ years, in spite
> of doing load evaluations & others installing what ever they normally used.
> It has been a great rescue device. Well pump, 2 dish washers, booster pump,
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003                       dana at solarwork.com
> <dana at solarwork.com>*
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136                       www.solarwork.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Jeff Clearwater
> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 8:04 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?
>
>
>
> Hey Wrenches,
>
> Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well and sewage pumps to
> lower the surge for off-grid inverters?
>
> The baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore Grinder
> Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
> www.villagepowerdesign.com
> cell - 413-559-9763
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM:
>
>
>
> *Thanks Ray and Jerry,Great to hear from you both with your years of
> combined experience :)*
>
> *So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching back to a trusty Radian -
> even then from what you are saying it may not work.*
>
> And you are right Ray -  Outback is careful to rate the "overload
> capability" in KVA rather than KW due most likely to voltage sag of course.
>
> *So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust the 5 second (50 A) might
> not start - especially with other loads on the system?*
>
> *RADIAN SURGE RATINGS:*
>
> *Maximum Output Current*
> 1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200 Amps AC at 120 VAC
> 100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC
>
> *Overload Capability*
> 100 ms surge 16.97 kVa
> 5 seconds 12 kVa
> 30 minute 9 kVa
>
>
>
>
>
> *Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or well pump motors on a
> Radian?Thanks!Jeff*
>
>
> Ray wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM:
>
> I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get an idea what an
> inverter can really do in the real world.  All those millisecond ratings/
> in rush current specs won't get a pump or motor started, and will basically
> just get you into trouble.  The reason they have those ratings in amps and
> not watts, is that the voltage craters during that 100mS surge.
>
> I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump, compressor, or
> large table saw, and the inverter just shut off, even though the "in rush
> current" was within the theoretical inverter capacity.  Actual Wrench list
> testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs.
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:
>
> *Hey There Wrenches,*
>
> So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT
> double the surge ratings of a single SW.
>
> But that brings me to my second question:
>
> *What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum
> Inrush or LRA - 1ms?  100ms?  1 sec?*
>
> *Your engineering wisdom welcomed!*
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:
>
> Thanks for the tip!  I'll check the firmware.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
>
> I am not going to guess if this will work, it should.  I use XW's because
> they start anything I have come across.
>
> If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware.
> There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>
> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>
> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>
> *e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>
> *text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater
> <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Esteemed Wrenches,
>
> So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW
> for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.
>
> But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is only
> rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping kick -
> probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.
>
> *The SW has the following surge capability:*
>
> *SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:*
> Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts
> 30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts
> 5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts
> Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts
>
> Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?
>
>
> *Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?*
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>
> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>
> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>
> *e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>
> *text 209 813 0060*
>
>
>
>
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> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
> www.villagepowerdesign.com
> cell - 413-559-9763
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
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