[RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?
Jeff Clearwater
jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com
Fri Jul 26 16:15:39 EDT 2019
Hey Jerry,
I think the issue is capacitor start motors can't handle VFDs. but
there are other approaches to soft start - still learning. Thanks for
the reference!
Best,
Jeff
Jerry Shafer wrote on 7/26/19 12:59 PM:
> Wrenches
> I have quite a few freq drives on single phase, the controller came
> from ABB, the pic attached is reference only, it was for a AC chiller
> grid connected not off grid but the controller works either way
> Jerry
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 12:47 PM Jeff Clearwater
> <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com <mailto:jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Chris!
>
> Unfortunately I'm finding that unless you build an integrated
> control - motor combo that can soft start like Franklin did - the
> majority of single phase motors can't use soft start. That is
> probably a 3-phase motor in that pump that they have an inverter
> for in the controls - or they used a shaded pole or spit capacitor
> single phase motor which can use soft start - at least that is
> what my initial research and phone call to the pump control
> company has thus far revealed.
>
> Apparently you can play with the voltage-amperage tradeoffs when
> you have the 3 magnetic fields interaction - single phase doesn't
> allow you much room to wiggle.
>
> I do see single phase soft-starts on the market - still
> researching but that's my initial findings.
>
> Anyone know differently?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at OasisMontana.com> wrote on
> 7/26/19 9:27 AM:
>
>> Here at the Oasis home/office, we have a Goulds 3 hp 240VAC soft
>> start pump (#18GS30, w/ Franklin motor HS09970 and #3AS30 Aquavar
>> Solo controller); it’s been running off of my 2011 Radian GS8048
>> since 2016, when I had to drill a new well (the water table is
>> dropping) and pump from about 300 ft. depth.I have 3500 ft. of
>> drip irrigation, a big garden and the usual domestic water
>> loads.It’s worked flawlessly since its inception, and I cannot
>> speak more highly of Goulds pumps.My first one lasted 23 years
>> (it was a 1.5HP model).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris Daum
>>
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>>
>> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>>
>> 406-777-4309 fax
>>
>> www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com>
>>
>> *From:*RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On Behalf Of
>> *Dana
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 9:34 AM
>> *To:* 'Jeff Clearwater' <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>
>> <mailto:jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>; 'RE-wrenches'
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and
>> Sewage Pumps?
>>
>> Yes I have used soft starts offgrid with SW & VFX for 15+ years,
>> in spite of doing load evaluations & others installing what ever
>> they normally used. It has been a great rescue device. Well pump,
>> 2 dish washers, booster pump, etc.
>>
>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.
>>
>> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com <mailto:dana at solarwork.com>*
>>
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>>
>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com <http://www.solarwork.com>
>>
>> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _
>>
>> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>> *From:*RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of
>> *Jeff Clearwater
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 8:04 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage
>> Pumps?
>>
>> Hey Wrenches,
>>
>> Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well and sewage
>> pumps to lower the surge for off-grid inverters?
>>
>> The baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore
>> Grinder Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Jeff Clearwater
>> Village Power Design
>> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
>> www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepowerdesign.com>
>> cell - 413-559-9763
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM:
>>
>> *Thanks Ray and Jerry,
>>
>> Great to hear from you both with your years of combined
>> experience :)*
>>
>> *So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching back to a
>> trusty Radian - _even then from what you are saying it may
>> not work._*
>>
>> And you are right Ray - Outback is careful to rate the
>> "overload capability" in KVA rather than KW due most likely
>> to voltage sag of course.
>>
>> *So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust the 5 second
>> (50 A) might not start - especially with other loads on the
>> system?*
>>
>> *RADIAN SURGE RATINGS:*
>>
>> *Maximum Output Current*
>> 1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200 Amps AC at 120 VAC
>> 100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC
>>
>> *Overload Capability*
>> 100 ms surge 16.97 kVa
>> 5 seconds 12 kVa
>> 30 minute 9 kVa
>>
>> *Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or well pump motors
>> on a Radian?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jeff*
>>
>>
>> Ray wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM:
>>
>> I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get
>> an idea what an inverter can really do in the real
>> world. All those millisecond ratings/ in rush current
>> specs won't get a pump or motor started, and will
>> basically just get you into trouble. The reason they have
>> those ratings in amps and not watts, is that the voltage
>> craters during that 100mS surge.
>>
>> I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump,
>> compressor, or large table saw, and the inverter just
>> shut off, even though the "in rush current" was within
>> the theoretical inverter capacity. Actual Wrench list
>> testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>>
>> Remote Solar
>>
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:
>>
>> *Hey There Wrenches,*
>>
>> So be advised that after a little research the SW
>> dual stack will NOT double the surge ratings of a
>> single SW.
>>
>> But that brings me to my second question:
>> *
>> What inverter surge rating should one refer to when
>> looking at maximum Inrush or LRA - 1ms? 100ms? 1 sec?*
>>
>> *Your engineering wisdom welcomed!*
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:
>>
>> Thanks for the tip! I'll check the firmware.
>>
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I am not going to guess if this will work, it
>> should. I use XW's because they start
>> anything I have come across.
>>
>> If you do this, make sure but SW's have the
>> latest and same firmware. There were problems
>> with stacked SW's early on in their development.
>>
>> **Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar**
>>
>> **"we go where powerlines don't"**
>>
>> **http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/**
>>
>> **e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
>> <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>**
>>
>> **text 209 813 0060**
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff
>> Clearwater <jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com>
>> <mailto:jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Esteemed Wrenches,
>>
>> So I recently built a power trailer with
>> a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW for a
>> client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.
>>
>> But he lives on a high hill and even
>> though his 2 HP Macerator is only rated
>> at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up
>> with a whopping kick - probably close to
>> or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.
>>
>> *The SW has the following surge capability:*
>>
>> *SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:*
>> Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts
>> 30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts
>> 5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts
>> Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts
>>
>> Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs
>> will start this baby?
>>
>> *Any experience with similar macerators -
>> or simply educated guesses?
>> *
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> --
>>
>> **Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar**
>>
>> **"we go where powerlines don't"**
>>
>> **http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/**
>>
>> **e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
>> <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>**
>>
>> **text 209 813 0060**
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>>
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>>
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>>
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>>
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> --
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Jeff Clearwater
>> Village Power Design
>> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
>> www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepowerdesign.com>
>> cell - 413-559-9763
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20190726/7552bd72/attachment.htm>
More information about the RE-Wrenches
mailing list