[RE-wrenches] Fullriver Battery meltdown
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Fri May 11 13:13:19 EDT 2018
Many installers and customers seem over occupied with sulfation from
under charging, but I actually think over heating is the not so silent
killer we really need to be worrying about. I've had severely
undercharged, but cool batteries last much longer than they should, and
I have seen over insulated, over heated batteries die a messy acid
soaked death.
I've also seen an AGM with C100 charge rate (trickle charge right?)
climb to 16 v, and start gassing as Steve mentioned. If I had added some
insulation around the battery and left it long enough, I think we would
have had the same melt down.
Also Steve's comments on the BTS are very important. Temp Compensation
can do more harm than good, if the BTS is damaged or not installed in
the right location. I only recommend BTS, if the room temperature is
going to vary more than 30 deg F. I've seen all sorts of odd behavior
over the years, that was cured by disconnecting the BTS.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 5/10/18 5:47 PM, Steve Higgins wrote:
> Hey Guys, just throwing this out there... I know these weren't mine
> (Rolls) but I've seen this happen and in 99% of the cases it's
> excessive heat.
>
> AGM's typically don't enter thermal runaway, like the older 90's and
> 00's Gels did...
>
> I asked earlier about the temp sensors, on these they should be
> mounted about 1/2 way down on one of the long sides. The side mount
> sensors are best as the temp variance between the side and the top
> terminal can be as much as 20 degrees... this is going to cause over
> charging, and thus too much heat every time.
>
> Here is a FLIR shot of a battery bank while under charge:
>
>
> You can see the difference in the temps between the posts, and the
> side of the battery bank.
> Most battery companies will tell you that side mounted sensors, in the
> warmest location of the bank is where you want your BTS.
>
> Another issue with these, for for that matter any VRLA battery is
> gassing. When they are charging, even in a 55F room they will get
> warm, typically in Bulk/Absorb about 20-25F higher, in hot (Above 77F)
> environment this often can be as high as 90-120F. when this happens
> the valves on the battery "burp". If you have tie down straps going
> across the top of the battery this will restrict the valve from
> opening, thus ballooning out the chassis or jar. In this case it's
> better to lay them on their long, or short sides, than to let them
> stand vertically.
>
> AGM's and GEL's will gas, especially when heated above 77F, when you
> are charging is when most of that heat is going to build up.
>
> Last but no least spacing between the batteries is important, it's a
> good idea to have 1-2 inches of space between them at all times.
>
> Had a case recently that I did a site visit on battery bank on a boat
> in Florida.
>
> All the batteries (8) boiled out and cooked... same type of damage.
> When I got to the site all the batteries had severe heating damage to
> the plates.
>
> Upon inspection of the programming I found that the Float set point
> was set to the Absorb Voltage, and the BTS has been eaten by a animal
> of some sort... When that occurred it shorted the BTS on the
> inverter making the inverter think that the battery temp was -2C...
> this caused the Inverter to charge at over 31 volts for 3 months
> before the owner found the battery and had cooked...
>
>
>
>
> Just saying... when this happens it's often a battery temp issue, and
> not a battery issue... and yes, I would have said that even if I
> didn't work for a battery manufacture.
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t+1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840
> f+1.902.597.8447 esteve at surrette.com <mailto:steve at surrette.com>
> <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery>
> <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery>
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering><http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery>
>
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>
> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Michael Morningstar
> <mjmorningstar at gmail.com <mailto:mjmorningstar at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The picture shows a group of new Fullriver batteries destined for
> a different site, and the ruined Crown’s I had just pulled out.
> They are sitting in the back of my truck. Batteries were in a
> basement that stays 55F year round. Temp sensors for both the
> Magnum inverter and Midnite Classic 150. Small array(600 watts).
> 2/0 cables. Absorb time 1.5 hours. Factory recommended charging
> parameters. Tight connections. My first thermal runaway after
> hundreds and hundreds of battery bank installs too. My local
> distributor has been pushing Crowns and their great warranty so I
> reluctantly gave them a shot. Lead acids and AGMs. I’m not
> impressed with either. Nor their warranty process.
>
> I
>> On May 10, 2018, at 3:49 PM, Rick Brown
>> <rick at solshineenergyalternatives.com
>> <mailto:rick at solshineenergyalternatives.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I’m inclined to agree with Maverick. Mixing old and new batteries
>> is not recommended. Differing internal resistance coupled with
>> potentially extreme temps can lead to thermal runaway.
>>
>> rick brown
>> SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC
>> Electrical & Solar Contracting Services
>> www.SolShineEnergyAlternatives.com
>> <http://www.solshineenergyalternatives.com/>
>> Check, Virginia 24072
>> 540.808.9502 <tel:540.808.9502>
>>
>> VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660
>> VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762
>> VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21
>>
>> On May 10, 2018, at 6:02 PM, "maverick at mavericksolar.com
>> <mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com>" <maverick at mavericksolar.com
>> <mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a mix of old and new Batteries in a cabinet too small
>>> to drain excessive heat gain. Was the cabinet shaded? Or exposed
>>> to direct sun? Temp sensor on charging source?
>>> What size interconnect cables were used?
>>> Was it a bus system?
>>> Absorb with End Amps was turned on?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2018, at 4:41 PM, Michael Morningstar
>>> <mjmorningstar at gmail.com <mailto:mjmorningstar at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <image1.jpeg>
>>>> One year old. Well looked after system.
>>>> On May 10, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems
>>>> <larry at starlightsolar.com <mailto:larry at starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrenches,
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached is a photo of my first thermal runaway event after 17
>>>>> years and thousands of battery systems installed. These were
>>>>> in an RV. I checked every charge source and all are within
>>>>> specified charging parameters. No cause found. The owner is a
>>>>> single elderly lady that uses very little power in her RV and
>>>>> spend most of the time on shore power. She reported that the
>>>>> batteries were dead when she unplugged from shore power. This
>>>>> was i the 23rd month after installation.
>>>>>
>>>>> After I reported this to my Fullriver distributor, they told
>>>>> me that another set of DC400-6 had melted down just 1 month
>>>>> earlier and that they had fused together just like these. That
>>>>> is extreme heat. It is too peculiar to know of two similar
>>>>> events. This meltdown happened within the 2 year warranty
>>>>> period but my customer could not come back to us for another 3
>>>>> months beyond the warranty period. Fullriver would not allow
>>>>> anything towards replacement do to the reporting date being
>>>>> grater than 24 months.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to know has anyone else had a similar failure
>>>>> with Rolls or Fullriver AGM batteries, specifically L16 size.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry Crutcher
>>>>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <IMG_0627.jpeg>
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