Kohler full-output at 120 volts? [RE-wrenches]

[allan]

Wrenches,
Phil is correct on this; I was wrong.  It's an important clarification.
John Wiles goes through this pretty thoroughly in HP 72, and 73.

Allan at Positive Energy

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Undercuffler <phil at positivenergy.com>
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kohler full-output at 120 volts? [RE-wrenches]


>An important note of clarification about breaking the bond in the
generator:
>
>I found a potential for misunderstanding in Allan's message.  If you have a
>genset that allows the bond to be broken internally, such as the Kohler
>units, (Allan's note 1) I believe the genset should be grounded to the main
>system ground.  If you choose to drive a suplemental ground rod near the
>genset, that rod should be connected to the main ground rod.
>
>However, if your genset's bond cannot be broken, as in most "contractor
>specials," then follow Allan's notes 2&3.  The idea is based on "seperately
>derived systems" in the code, most commonly seen in farm outbuildings.
>Multiple services spread out on a property, only one meter/disconnect/bond
>point and NO ground wires, metal conduit, metal pipes, gutters, rebar, or
>any other potential ground conductor between.  No where in the code does it
>state a minimum safe distance, so distance between the generator and any
>grounded point in this case is going to be at the discretion of your common
>sense and the athority having jurisdiction.
>
>By the way, I would like to know more about those 120/240 switches on some
>Honda units.  Do they allow full output at 120?
>
>Phil Undercuffler
>Positive Energy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: allan <allan at positivenergy.com>
>To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Kohler full-output at 120 volts? [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>> Gary and wrenches:
>>     First, a caveat: We have been Kohler dealers since early '99 (the
>> distributor invited a few dealers in CO and NM, anticipating Y2K
business,
>> and they were right).  So we are most familiar with the 8.5 and 11 RMY
air
>> cooled homeowner units that replaced the wonderful 6.5 RMY
>flathead-powered
>> unit of years past, and the smaller water-cooled RY/RZ units of 10, 12,
>and
>> 20kW.  There are other models for other markets that I'm not familiar
>with,
>> and 17 and 22 kW models that don't derate well for our 6-9,000'
>elevations.
>> So these LP/natural gas units are what we have installed.
>>     The reconnection diagrams are in Section 5 of the installation
manuals
>> that come with the units.  Basically, the generator has 4 stator leads; 2
>> and 3 are tied together as neutral for 120/240 operation, and 1 and 3 are
>> tied together as neutral for straight 120V output.  I will not say any
>more
>> here, to cover my rear.  Check diagrams 5-1 thru 5-4 in the manual for
>> morecomplete info.
>>     Onan Commercial units are also configurable to 120V.  Their Marquis
RV
>> series only comes 120.  Some Hondas come with a switchable output, but
I'm
>> not positive it's a bona fide full (balanced) 120V output.  Wrenches?
>>
>>     While we're on the subject, here's something that is usually
>overlooked
>> but is a serious safety issue.  All the generators I've seen come
>internally
>> bonded neutral-to-ground.  They have to, to protect dumb homeowners who
>> don't ground the units.  If you connect the gennie ground lug in the
>output
>> to the home system ground (which you automatically will do if you use a
>> proper plug and cord, wired up normally), you will have a
current-carrying
>> parallel path to your AC output neutral, as you will have two
>> neutral-to-ground bonds in the system when the generator is connected.  I
>> have measured it with an amp-clamp.  This is a major safety no-no.
>> 1) Break your neutral-to-ground bond if you can.  Kohlers use two ground
>> lugs, side-by-side in the terminal area.  Float the neutral stator wires;
>we
>> use a #6 split bolt with a floating splice.  Onan something similar.
>Cheapo
>> units can't be unbonded, so:
>> 2) Run only hot and neutral wires between the two points.  Tape off the
>> ground conductor if there is one (SO cord or the like) at both ends.
>Label
>> what you've done.
>> 3) Bond the gennie chassis to its own ground rod, that is separate from
>any
>> system grounding.  Keep the gennie physically out of reach of anything
>> connected to ground in the house.
>>
>>     I would appreciate any feedback on this, especially any inaccuracies
>in
>> what I've written.  By the way, Dankoff is carrying the smaller Kohler
>units
>> for their dealers.  Am I allowed to say this here??
>>
>> Allan at Positive Energy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Higbee, Solutions from the Land <ghigbee at efn.org>
>> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>> Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 3:23 PM
>> Subject: Kohler full-output at 120 volts? [RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>> >Hi Wrenches,
>> >
>> >Allan at Positive E wrote "All Kohlers thru 12 or 20kW or so can be
wired
>> >120 VAC output, so you don't have to match a pair of inverter/charger
>loads
>> >on each leg of 240 VAC output..."
>> >
>> >How this is done?
>> >
>> >I do mostly stand-alone systems, and haven't messed with generators
much.
>> >I'm working with a client now, though, who's going to be using his
Kohler
>> >propane generator (around 7kW) with a SW5548, 16 L-16's, running a
>Grundfos
>> >Model 10 SQ sub pump (9-10gpm measured at 425', "efficient," soft-start)
>> and
>> >general household loads. He'll be generator-charging until we add a
>couple
>> >KW of solar in the future (when the $ tree grows up!).
>> >
>> >If there's a way to get (balanced) full-output from the Kohler without a
>> >T/240 I'd love to know how ASAP. Thank You!
>> >
>> >
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >     Gary Higbee  (ghigbee at efn.org)
>> >             (541)607-1818
>> >    Solutions from the Land--solar,
>> >  wind, and hydro site analysis, design,
>> >       and installation assistance
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >
>> >
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