[RE-wrenches] [EXTERNAL] Re: Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Tue May 13 13:47:54 PDT 2025

Victron has a wireless display solution which uses an old dedicated android
phone or tablet via WiFi and it has worked well for me so far.
https://professional.victronenergy.com/news/detail/300/

Rich

On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 10:08 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I just installed a Victron/Discover system at my house. The install went
> well, although, like Michael said, it needs some customization to work with
> conduit.
>
> Tech support is done through your dealer. I bought through Kienan Maxfield
> (he's on the list), and his support was excellent.
>
> The comms does take some work to set up with three apps between the two
> vendors, but once it's set up, it's worked without an issue.
>
> You do need to hardwire the display, which prevents installing it at a
> significant distance, but you can do anything on the display in the
> app, which was a huge improvement from my Outback VFX system.
>
> Thanks,
> Will
> ------------------------------
> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf
> of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 13, 2025 11:53 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Cc:* Michael Morningstar <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator
> Functionality
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
>
> I've had good luck with the Victron/Discover pairing for small
> off-gridsystems. The drawbacks are: No tech support (as far as I know),
> requires stacking for 120/240 and more than 3kw, no conduit boxes on MPPTs,
> lots of BOS components, and lots of comms and a familiarity with the
> various comms cables. Also, I haven't come up with a reliable solution for
> installing the touch screen at distance from the power system. That is
> system in a power shed remote from the dwelling.
>
> I've had zero issues with this pairing and it will probably be my go to
> for awhile. We're installing our first AIO offgrid in a few days, as I
> purchased the equipment for the project early last fall when they were
> first released, not realizing their unsuitability for off-grid.
>
> It's weird, I would have expected better from Midnite and wonder just WHO
> engineered the unit?
>
> Generators: Simple diesel genset 1st choice always or liquid cooled/low
> RPM LPG for 20kw up, Honda eu7000is w/ LPG conversion for smaller
> requirements
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 7:50 AM MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> After having many many failures very prematurely with the Kohler 14 and
> 20s I've switched to the Cummins-Onan air cooled two wires start units and
> they have been flawless so far.
>
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
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> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
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>
>
> On May 13, 2025, at 7:33 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Hello Jay,
>
> I am using Kohler 14 RCAs in Colorado.  It has the off-grid warranty
> 18-month/1000 hr.  I have seen good results, I probably have 60-70 out
> there now.  If you can make it through the 6 month mark, its probably going
> to be pretty good machine (control and /or sensor failures).  I have had
> random issues, they aren't perfect, but its the best I've come across for
> an autostart machine that works well with elevation derate here.  Very
> simple to troubleshoot, stepper motor, controller, not much else.  Btw,
> Kohler sold its residential line to Rehlko recently so who knows!
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> I’ve installed one. It works and simple
> Like the other AIOs.
> It has a different firmware/display than the 8,12 kw units which is a bit
> frustrating.
>
> The main drawback with the 6 is it’s only 3kw per leg. It doesn’t like
> being too out of balance either. Tare loss is a bit high and the fans seems
> to run a lot but better cooler than hotter.
> But it’s less than 1/2 the price of the 8kw. It’s about $1600.
> If you just bought it as a CC it’d be a great deal.
>
> As to it not being made in China I think is nothing more than simantics.
> It might now be assembled in Texas but the parts are all made in China.
> So draw your own conclusions
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2025, at 6:10 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Talking to Steve at Zonna about the problems with off grid equipment, he
> recommended the EG4 6000XP as a good off grid inverter. He said they are no
> longer made in China and are a very good product. Does anyone have
> experience with that unit?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
>
> *Drake Chamberlin*
>
> *Athens Electric LLC*
>
> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810*
>
> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional*
> ---
>
>
>
> On 2025-05-12 13:11, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend a
> hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get the
> battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my aging
> backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>
> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake up
> the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the offgrid
> battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing like
> Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of new
> Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger Will Robinson)
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For retrofits,
> sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>
> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical bypass,
> and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator input (or
> smart load output on that breaker), I think the default function is for the
> relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage on the load side of
> the breaker does not close the relay and turn the inverter back on
> automatically.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>
> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to
> bypass the inverter and power loads.
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
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> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the
> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike some of
> the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
> in my limited experience.
>
> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low voltage
> cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON for the
> generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but since the
> battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to reprogram
> the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current battery
> state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to start the
> generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the battery
> manually is no easy task.
>
> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an OFF
> state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the inverter ON
> automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON somehow so that the
> generator power can pass through to the loads. And since the startup
> sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive, and unreliable,
> that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can even turn the
> inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is too low. I
> don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter doesn't even
> see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the
> other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will both
> immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is on,
> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or Generator
> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is
> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and
> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>
> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met and
> opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong about how
> this works?
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
>
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>
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> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> * "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates *
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>
>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric Inc
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> CSLB 1116835
>
> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>
>
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