[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Tue May 13 09:58:29 PDT 2025

I think a big part of the generator selection is who is around to service
the machine.  If there is a good generator technician around a certain
brand, that may be the way to go.  I don't like Generac at all.  There is
no real presence on Cummins/Onan here and Kohler has worked fine for me and
Im familiar with it.

On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:50 AM MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> After having many many failures very prematurely with the Kohler 14 and
> 20s I've switched to the Cummins-Onan air cooled two wires start units and
> they have been flawless so far.
>
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>
>
> On May 13, 2025, at 7:33 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Hello Jay,
>
> I am using Kohler 14 RCAs in Colorado.  It has the off-grid warranty
> 18-month/1000 hr.  I have seen good results, I probably have 60-70 out
> there now.  If you can make it through the 6 month mark, its probably going
> to be pretty good machine (control and /or sensor failures).  I have had
> random issues, they aren't perfect, but its the best I've come across for
> an autostart machine that works well with elevation derate here.  Very
> simple to troubleshoot, stepper motor, controller, not much else.  Btw,
> Kohler sold its residential line to Rehlko recently so who knows!
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I’ve installed one. It works and simple
>> Like the other AIOs.
>> It has a different firmware/display than the 8,12 kw units which is a bit
>> frustrating.
>>
>> The main drawback with the 6 is it’s only 3kw per leg. It doesn’t like
>> being too out of balance either. Tare loss is a bit high and the fans seems
>> to run a lot but better cooler than hotter.
>> But it’s less than 1/2 the price of the 8kw. It’s about $1600.
>> If you just bought it as a CC it’d be a great deal.
>>
>> As to it not being made in China I think is nothing more than simantics.
>> It might now be assembled in Texas but the parts are all made in China.
>> So draw your own conclusions
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 13, 2025, at 6:10 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Talking to Steve at Zonna about the problems with off grid equipment, he
>> recommended the EG4 6000XP as a good off grid inverter. He said they are no
>> longer made in China and are a very good product. Does anyone have
>> experience with that unit?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>>
>>
>> *Drake Chamberlin*
>>
>> *Athens Electric LLC*
>>
>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional*
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2025-05-12 13:11, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend
>> a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get
>> the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my aging
>> backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
>> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>>
>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake
>> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the offgrid
>> battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing like
>> Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of new
>> Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger Will Robinson)
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
>> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For retrofits,
>> sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>>
>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical bypass,
>> and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator input (or
>> smart load output on that breaker), I think the default function is for the
>> relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage on the load side of
>> the breaker does not close the relay and turn the inverter back on
>> automatically.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>>
>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to
>> bypass the inverter and power loads.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>    <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>>
>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the
>> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike some of
>> the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
>> in my limited experience.
>>
>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low
>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON
>> for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but since
>> the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to
>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current
>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to
>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
>> battery manually is no easy task.
>>
>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an
>> OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the inverter
>> ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON somehow so that
>> the generator power can pass through to the loads. And since the startup
>> sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive, and unreliable,
>> that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can even turn the
>> inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is too low. I
>> don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter doesn't even
>> see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the
>> other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will both
>> immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is on,
>> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or Generator
>> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is
>> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and
>> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>>
>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met
>> and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong about
>> how this works?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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-- 

Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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