[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Mac Lewis maclewis1 at gmail.com
Tue May 13 10:10:52 PDT 2025 

I really like Victron, big and small.  They are much harder to install and
more technical to program, but there is now an ePanel for the 3kW.  The
hard part with Victron is arc fault, rapid shutdown etc.  If you want
120/240 then you need to stack or use an autoformer.

A small company in Utah makes a great conduit box for the Victron charge
controllers.  Check out Green Go Solar Distribution, they can also support
Victron really well.

On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 10:58 AM Mac Lewis <maclewis1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think a big part of the generator selection is who is around to service
> the machine.  If there is a good generator technician around a certain
> brand, that may be the way to go.  I don't like Generac at all.  There is
> no real presence on Cummins/Onan here and Kohler has worked fine for me and
> Im familiar with it.
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:50 AM MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> After having many many failures very prematurely with the Kohler 14 and
>> 20s I've switched to the Cummins-Onan air cooled two wires start units and
>> they have been flawless so far.
>>
>> Michael D Nelson
>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>> 707-884-1862 office
>> www.mdelectricsolar.com
>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>>
>>
>> On May 13, 2025, at 7:33 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hello Jay,
>>
>> I am using Kohler 14 RCAs in Colorado.  It has the off-grid warranty
>> 18-month/1000 hr.  I have seen good results, I probably have 60-70 out
>> there now.  If you can make it through the 6 month mark, its probably going
>> to be pretty good machine (control and /or sensor failures).  I have had
>> random issues, they aren't perfect, but its the best I've come across for
>> an autostart machine that works well with elevation derate here.  Very
>> simple to troubleshoot, stepper motor, controller, not much else.  Btw,
>> Kohler sold its residential line to Rehlko recently so who knows!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve installed one. It works and simple
>>> Like the other AIOs.
>>> It has a different firmware/display than the 8,12 kw units which is a
>>> bit frustrating.
>>>
>>> The main drawback with the 6 is it’s only 3kw per leg. It doesn’t like
>>> being too out of balance either. Tare loss is a bit high and the fans seems
>>> to run a lot but better cooler than hotter.
>>> But it’s less than 1/2 the price of the 8kw. It’s about $1600.
>>> If you just bought it as a CC it’d be a great deal.
>>>
>>> As to it not being made in China I think is nothing more than simantics.
>>> It might now be assembled in Texas but the parts are all made in China.
>>> So draw your own conclusions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 13, 2025, at 6:10 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Talking to Steve at Zonna about the problems with off grid equipment, he
>>> recommended the EG4 6000XP as a good off grid inverter. He said they are no
>>> longer made in China and are a very good product. Does anyone have
>>> experience with that unit?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Drake
>>>
>>>
>>> *Drake Chamberlin*
>>>
>>> *Athens Electric LLC*
>>>
>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810*
>>>
>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional*
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2025-05-12 13:11, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend
>>> a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get
>>> the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my aging
>>> backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough
>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the
>>> customer could get the inverter back on too.  No special trip out.
>>>
>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake
>>> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the offgrid
>>> battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing like
>>> Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of new
>>> Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.  (Danger Will Robinson)
>>>
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
>>> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For retrofits,
>>> sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>>>
>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the
>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage
>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the
>>> inverter back on automatically.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>>>
>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to
>>> bypass the inverter and power loads.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>    <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>> text 209 813 0060*
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the
>>> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike some of
>>> the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an
>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which
>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is
>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work
>>> in my limited experience.
>>>
>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low
>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON
>>> for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but since
>>> the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to
>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current
>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to
>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
>>> battery manually is no easy task.
>>>
>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an
>>> OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the inverter
>>> ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON somehow so that
>>> the generator power can pass through to the loads. And since the startup
>>> sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive, and unreliable,
>>> that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can even turn the
>>> inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is too low. I
>>> don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter doesn't even
>>> see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.
>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the
>>> other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will both
>>> immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is on,
>>> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or Generator
>>> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is
>>> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and
>>> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>>>
>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met
>>> and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong about
>>> how this works?
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>


-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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