<div dir="ltr">I really like Victron, big and small. They are much harder to install and more technical to program, but there is now an ePanel for the 3kW. The hard part with Victron is arc fault, rapid shutdown etc. If you want 120/240 then you need to stack or use an autoformer.<div><br></div><div>A small company in Utah makes a great conduit box for the Victron charge controllers. Check out Green Go Solar Distribution, they can also support Victron really well. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 10:58 AM Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I think a big part of the generator selection is who is around to service the machine. If there is a good generator technician around a certain brand, that may be the way to go. I don't like Generac at all. There is no real presence on Cummins/Onan here and Kohler has worked fine for me and Im familiar with it.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:50 AM MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">After having many many failures very prematurely with the Kohler 14 and 20s I've switched to the Cummins-Onan air cooled two wires start units and they have been flawless so far.<div><br id="m_-145852643901848603m_-8863507957857044193lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Michael D Nelson</div><div>MD Electric & Solar, Inc.</div><div>707-684-0064 mobile</div><div>707-884-1862 office</div><div><a href="http://www.mdelectricsolar.com" target="_blank">www.mdelectricsolar.com</a></div><div><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar</a></div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On May 13, 2025, at 7:33 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hello Jay,<div><br></div><div>I am using Kohler 14 RCAs in Colorado. It has the off-grid warranty 18-month/1000 hr. I have seen good results, I probably have 60-70 out there now. If you can make it through the 6 month mark, its probably going to be pretty good machine (control and /or sensor failures). I have had random issues, they aren't perfect, but its the best I've come across for an autostart machine that works well with elevation derate here. Very simple to troubleshoot, stepper motor, controller, not much else. Btw, Kohler sold its residential line to Rehlko recently so who knows!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">I’ve installed one. It works and simple</div><div dir="ltr">Like the other AIOs. </div><div dir="ltr">It has a different firmware/display than the 8,12 kw units which is a bit frustrating. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The main drawback with the 6 is it’s only 3kw per leg. It doesn’t like being too out of balance either. Tare loss is a bit high and the fans seems to run a lot but better cooler than hotter. </div><div dir="ltr">But it’s less than 1/2 the price of the 8kw. It’s about $1600. </div><div dir="ltr">If you just bought it as a CC it’d be a great deal. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">As to it not being made in China I think is nothing more than simantics. </div><div dir="ltr">It might now be assembled in Texas but the parts are all made in China. </div><div dir="ltr">So draw your own conclusions </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On May 13, 2025, at 6:10 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Talking to Steve at Zonna about the problems with off grid equipment, he recommended the EG4 6000XP as a good off grid inverter. He said they are no longer made in China and are a very good product. Does anyone have experience with that unit?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Thanks, </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Drake </span></p>
<p><br></p>
<p><em>Drake Chamberlin</em></p>
<p><em>Athens Electric LLC</em></p>
<p><em>Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810</em></p>
<p><em>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</em></p>
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<p id="m_-145852643901848603m_-8863507957857044193m_3815954335998014763reply-intro">On 2025-05-12 13:11, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
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<p>So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No special trip out. </p>
<p>We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. (Danger Will Robinson)</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>Remote Solar</p>
<div>On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the inverter back on automatically.</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-145852643901848603m_-8863507957857044193m_3815954335998014763v1m_-2585636671733455182signature">
<div id="m_-145852643901848603m_-8863507957857044193m_3815954335998014763v1m_-2585636671733455182v1signature" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. </div>
<div style="color:rgb(51,51,51);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </div>
<div style="color:rgb(51,51,51);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to bypass the inverter and power loads.</div>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> </a><a style="color:blue;font-size:11px;font-family:"Lucida Grande",Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:400;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" href="https://offgridsolar1.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12pt">https://offgridsolar1.com/</span></a><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"> </a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
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<p id="m_-145852643901848603m_-8863507957857044193m_3815954335998014763v1m_-2585636671733455182reply-intro">On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:</p>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to work in my limited experience.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the battery manually is no easy task.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state.</div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery conditions do not allow it, based on the settings. </div>
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<div> </div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong about how this works?</div>
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Jason Szumlanski
<div>Principal Solar Designer</div>
<div>Florida Solar Design Group</div>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>