[RE-wrenches] 210.8

[Jason Szumlanski]

This is very true about the definition of outlet. I haven't looked at the
2023 changes recently since we are on 2020 still, but I think the hardwired
"outlets" described in 2023 are still only applicable for 150V to ground
appliances. I could be wrong on that.

Speaking of subpanels in close proximity to equipment, virtually all pool
subpanels around here are closer than 6 feet to the pool equipment. Pool
pumps, of course, need GFCI protection, but electric heat pumps do not.
Same with hardwired spa blowers. I'm not sure what the proximity has to do
with anything from a code perspective.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208



On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 12:07 PM Rebekah Hren <rebekah.hren at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> While I completely agree that inverter or ESS output is not a branch
> circuit or feeder, thus not subject to the requirements of 210 or 215, I do
> want to clarify that 2023 NEC has quite a lot of requirements for hardwired
> devices/appliances to be GFCI protected. See 210.8(D) and 210.8(F).
>
> An outlet is not the same as a receptacle. Outlets can be connected to
> hardwired devices or contain receptacles.
>
>
> Best,
> Rebekah
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 8:53 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> If there is a practical reason why something should not be done then the
>> code is irrelevant.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not like installing electrical equipment near plumbing so I get it.
>> Maybe a partition or wing wall could be implemented to protect from spray
>> if there is a leak?
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Lou Russo via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 8:39 AM
>> *To:* Jason Szumlanski
>> *Cc:* Lou Russo; RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason,
>>
>>
>>
>> That is my understanding as well. But he feels strongly enough that he
>> will pull out from the project if I don't comply and he does not want to
>> discuss it further. It is his license so he can do what he wants to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been working with him for 15 years and he is usually reasonably,
>> so it makes me wonder why he is standing his ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> He does not even want to have a general discussion about 210.8.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very odd.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 11:07 AM Jason Szumlanski <
>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> 210.8 covers GFCI protection for outlets and receptacles. Hard-wired
>> branch circuits and feeders of a PV and ESS system are not considered
>> outlets or receptacles.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I am not mistaken, each subsection specifically mentions outlets
>> and/or receptacles. Even the section about mini-splits is talking about
>> cord and plug connected units, not hard-wired appliances.
>>
>>
>>
>> The entirety of 210 is for branch circuits only, so feeders would not
>> fall under this section.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hopefully that helps!
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:10 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Aloha All,
>>
>>
>>
>> My engineer is pushing back on our design, which calls for a battery and
>> load center to be installed within 6ft of the water pump and filter, the
>> inverter is 7ft away. He is citing NEC 2020 210.8 and the need for GFCI
>> protection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now besides the practical reason for not doing this, I can not find a
>> code reference preventing our proposed location for the battery and load
>> center.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is for an off-grid new construction home with the PV equipment in
>> the garage, using a Sol-Ark 15k and Discover Rack Mount batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any input?
>>
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lou Russo
>>
>> Owner
>>
>> lou at spreesolarsystems.com
>>
>> Office - 808 345 6762
>>
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>>
>> CT-34322
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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