[RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience
Bradley Bassett
bbassett2 at gmail.com
Sat Feb 15 07:47:48 PST 2025
Oh, I just looked to see if the FireRaptor is still somewhat pricey, and it
looks like they might be hard to find if available at all. The only source
I found had them for double the price they used to be from OutBack.
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 7:44 AM Bradley Bassett <bbassett2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> You asked... the IMO FireRaptors I've installed seem to be completely
> reliable since they have their own separate 24VDC activation circuit. I do
> kind of like that the circuits are dead while working on them, but the
> extra wiring is of course more work. There is a huge amount of wire mgmt to
> do since the leads are all 6ft long, both the PV output circuits and the
> 24VDC activation circuits. Best is the fact that they work on ANY charge
> control or inverter. With older modules like my REC260's you can put two
> modules per FireRaptor.
>
> It would be fine by me if RSD was no longer a requirement.
> Doesn't Tesla have a UL listing for array level RSD now?
> BTW the AP smart does not work with Classic charge controllers.
>
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 6:07 AM david quattro via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil
>> disobedience?
>> I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and
>> refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the
>> bullshit in the aftermath.
>> I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group:
>> Does anyone have *good* experience with RSD? i.e. you’re really glad
>> RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer? you’re glad and happy to
>> comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the
>> rest of your career?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of
>>> equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof.
>>> Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD? How many fire
>>> fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack
>>> through the array to vent the roof?
>>>
>>> I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the
>>> roof with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their
>>> venting. The whole premise of RSD is flawed. IMHO, its just another
>>> effort to block the wider adoption of solar.
>>>
>>> When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to
>>> amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications,
>>> water, and heat. Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our
>>> customers' lives better.
>>>
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> On 2/14/2025 3:52 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> I had a site (not my install) with a ground rack and these TS4-F units,
>>> and they exhibited the exact same burn characteristics. At least half of
>>> them were burned up to some degree.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 2:11 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Nick,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's the TS4-F units. We have made every effort to install to the
>>>> specs provided (as the goal post and solutions keep changing) but have
>>>> still seen RSD's start to swell and/or burn over time. We've separated DC
>>>> wires and home runs and stayed within the home run complete circuit
>>>> distance that is recommended. We've used the "Pure Signal" transmitter
>>>> solution that syncs up the signaling from multiple inverters in an effort
>>>> to avoid the "chatter" that starts when the RSD is failing (see video below
>>>> about that).
>>>>
>>>> It's all field R&D at our expense in my opinion. Sadly, I'd be happy
>>>> if the RSD failed and didn't work but it starts to work in overdrive until
>>>> it burns up and causes an arc. These photos below are from a site where we
>>>> got lucky and the fire didn't spread. Below the photos is a link to a
>>>> video of Tigo and Mayfield discussing the crosstalk issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is a video discussion of the cross-talk and signal corruption
>>>> issues that are the supposed cause of the unit's failure's:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao>
>>>> Mayfield Renewables and Tigo Energy - Crosstalk Workshop
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_1_0Ofuhao>
>>>> A deep dive into how to design PLC (Power-Line Communication) based
>>>> solar rapid shutdown systems in order to minimize cross-talk and other
>>>> signal integrity issues. This is a technical presentation meant to assist
>>>> with the design of large scale solar rooftop arrays that use PLC-based
>>>> rapid shutdown systems, which are used to meet the rapid ...
>>>> www.youtube.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Buckner
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> 917-848-0215
>>>>
>>>> 718-389-1545
>>>>
>>>> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>>>> behalf of Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2025 1:26 PM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>> *Cc:* Nick Lucchese <lucchesesolar at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience
>>>>
>>>> CAUTION: External Email.
>>>> Greetings David,
>>>>
>>>> Can you elaborate on which products of theirs failed catastrophically?
>>>> Their TS4-F single and double units by chance? My experience has been an
>>>> annoying occurrence where certain installed units lock up
>>>> requring replacement after the array is shut down for O&M tasks but nothing
>>>> that starts burning as you mentioned. I've still got a reasonable amount of
>>>> them in my inventory but would rather not deploy if they're "burning" in
>>>> some way.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sharing your experience, Nick
>>>>
>>>> *We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from
>>>> plenty of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects
>>>> and blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power
>>>> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted
>>>> should not be allowed to remain on the market.*
>>>>
>>>> *David Buckner*
>>>> *SES*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Buckner
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> Solar Energy Systems
>>>>
>>>> 917-848-0215
>>>>
>>>> 718-389-1545
>>>>
>>>> dbuckner at solaresystems.com
>>>>
>>>> www.solaresystems.com
>>>> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26>
>>>>
>>>> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:06 PM David Buckner via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We've had catastrophic failures with the RSDs and have heard from
>>>> plenty of others that have had the same. The company denies and deflects
>>>> and blames the installer until you are fatigued. A product that uses power
>>>> line communication that can start burning when the signal gets corrupted
>>>> should not be allowed to remain on the market.
>>>>
>>>> David Buckner
>>>> SES
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Buckner
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> Solar Energy Systems
>>>>
>>>> 917-848-0215
>>>>
>>>> 718-389-1545
>>>>
>>>> dbuckner at solaresystems.com
>>>>
>>>> www.solaresystems.com
>>>> <https://us.content.exclaimer.net/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.solaresystems.com%2F&tenantid=sjl0rdWaEe6F-WBFvdNAXQ&templateid=933619bad6e2ee11aaf06045bdd55b16&excomponentid=W0znjuLBICxfJOZwpEisk1w6Uz7kRcz8RFh31bsCZu4&excomponenttype=Link&signature=oLHGWCDHeQYPxuVijopczXguVIz2A9gWA29emAtwvdbqV2XsAnsbVfPJR3OQHtcxck-4zeNWEHrxwAX_LXCUOBXnvLDZkSB3Ue09sLzQcUNKGxMLclBt5peel7iiM1neHKnk8UctTRnOeUfIagifjZaGWicP4Wi23eUaL-JSNh0iUlYWH5Y2kOEt_QGU-R6LtdhPzR8aNOqjq8ttGuksaSFX3YQorUNiBDkXDGXmmCSiiNgljGMekvYiEvoXMsCe_CC1DpnfHsaH45ZBD8L442uACHbkOuyDJ-IG20zpBYXGK3TzDh-GW4efLwZfi6MUcJohrIgQQag5JDhSynWoDQ&v=1&imprintMessageId=70f4909c-5e4b-4d4e-a4f1-8a28a937dd26>
>>>>
>>>> 41 Box Street 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11222
>>>>
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>>>> behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 7:05 PM
>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>>> *Cc:* Howie Michaelson <Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience
>>>>
>>>> CAUTION: External Email.
>>>> I do not have a lot of experience with Tigo equipment, almost all using
>>>> their optimizers with CCAs and TAPs. The 2 things I can say is after
>>>> getting my head wrapped around the setup and commissioning process (which
>>>> is not the most intuitive process), I haven't had much trouble with them
>>>> (again only have maybe 4 or 5 systems out there), and their tech support is
>>>> generally very available and very knowledgeable and helpful, impressively
>>>> so. Otherwise I can't speak much to their durability, reliability, or
>>>> functionality.
>>>>
>>>> Howie Michaelson
>>>> Sun Catcher
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:50 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>> I haven't tried their micro inverter or ESS, but so far all the
>>>> products that I've used from Tigo including the RSD switches that melted
>>>> have been problematic. Personally, I wouldn't use their products.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vince McClellan
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> NABCEP PV Professional
>>>>
>>>> p: 541-485-8122
>>>>
>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/860+Conger+St.+Suite+12,.+Eugene,+OR%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++97402?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesign.com <vince at solarenergydesgin.com>
>>>>
>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com
>>>>
>>>> CCB# 161672
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment
>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 10:53 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> I am curious if anyone has any experience with the Tigo inverter and
>>>> energy storage system. It looks very similar to the SMA setup, but maybe a
>>>> bit farther along in development. Even as just a simple string inverter, it
>>>> seems fairly reasonably priced.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>>>> p: he | him | his
>>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd.
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>| Ithaca,
>>>> NY 14850
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>>> c: (607) 270-0370
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