[RE-wrenches] GT w/ BB

Tue Sep 19 18:41:11 PDT 2023

As does Watteredge.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: William Miller via RE-wrenchesDate: Tue, Sep 19, 2023 2:09 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William Miller;Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] GT w/ BBStorm Copper has tables. William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 7:13 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Thx MichaelHow do you calculate buss bar size?Is there a specific formula or table I can find?ThxJayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 5:15 PM, Michael Morningstar <mjmorningstar at gmail.com> wrote:I've been making gutter bus wireways that run the length of batteries and inverters allowing for exact lengths of cables. I think I posted a picture of an exceptionally large one. 24' long. I'm looking at the rack mounted set up because the bussing and cabling is done. 3 racks of 6 5kwhr batteries. All I will need is cabling from the racks to a small (in size) bussbarOn
 Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:50 PM Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:Sounds like a good design. As a tangent question to 13 parallel batteries, such as you’ll need Michael. How are people wiring larger numbers of lithium batteries together in parallel?Massive buss bars which I’m not sure how to do in a code compliance way. Or Not worrying about different cable lengths?Or Adding another conductor to the farthest batteries to compensate for VDOr Making all the cables the same length?Thx JayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 4:37 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Jay, I'd like to design for 60kw supply and 100kWh battery. I think I'm going to try the Discover rack mount set up rather than AES's and custom bussing.Jason,That's exactly what I was thinking, if I go the Sol-Ark route. Last time I ordered custom panelboards like that, they were six months out.On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:18 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:If 40kw is
 the peak and then there are new added loads, what 50-60kw?  If it was me I’d be designing the inverters to handle the 50/60 kw with future expansion capabilities beyond that. Then how much kWh of storage are you going to need or maybe are planning for?At some point maybe looking at a larger single inverter with high voltage battery vs 48v?I’m not sure if there are any 120/240 versions yet.  JayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 12:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I like the Sol-Ark idea having had a few dual-unit successes recently. In terms of combining them, the Sol-ark manual has a good triple unit wiring diagram on page 53. You would have to use two 400A panelboards with three 200A breakers for each to follow this diagram. However, I don't see the point of a combining load center on the load side of the paralleled units. The Sol-Arks each have a 200A integrated load breaker, so why not just combine the outputs in a multi-tap connector or
 busbar? I think there is a code-compliant way to make that work, but I haven't studied it with three units.I would definitely ditch the SolarEdge inverters and just make it DC coupled to the Sol-Arks. You don't need these to be a failure point in the system, and the AC coupling will reduce the energy production in backup scenarios.It sounds like you would have to get the six 200 feeders out of the meter/main and into a new panelboard on the load side of the Sol-Arks. So that's another required load center.And if money is truly no object, I would consider a manual transfer switch to bypass the inverters for service. I'm afraid to look up what a 400A DPDT switch costs.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:14 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I've been asked to build a back up system for a grid
 connected estate. We haven't done many of these and I thought it best to ask those who have some questions before I go about reinventing the wheel.Here's the existing infrastructure.1) 400amp Metered Main Distribution Panel with six 200amp feeders to various sub-panels on the property2) 400amp ATS and 100kw Kohler rapid response generator 3) 20kw ground mount array with (2) SE Inverters located at the array. Feeder from array is 1,000 ft to Service. Six years old and wiring is janky.4) Data logging for the last year shows peak demands of almost 40kw. This could increase as several of formerly vacant  guest residences could be occupied.My go to is almost always Schneider, however in this instance when I looked into a quad stack, or more It seems like some type of controller is needed to prevent imbalanced current passing through the relays during transfer. That left me a bit concerned. Has anyone successfully stacked 4 or more XWPROs?Then there is the matter of AC or DC coupling? I
 really want no part in having anything to do with SE. The inverters are already looking pretty weathered taking the brunt of the prevailing winds and storms (they are mounted to one of the ground mount poles). Seems like a great waste to pull out the 4/0 feeders and replace strings. My other hesitancy with AC coupling is that we would lose PV monitoring and control.I've also considered Sol Ark 15's, like three of them. We've got some SA systems under are belt now and the only thing I can say that I like is the speed of installation and the 200amp pass through. Other than that, they leave me uninspired. One very large system continues to have glitches that SA just shrugs their shoulders about. If we were to do three 15's, what's the preferred combining method? All that I can come up with is a custom 400a panelboard w/ three 200a breakers. Price is not a consideration for this project. The new owners of this property (which is plagued with outages) have tasked me with building
 something that is ultra reliable and good take over in a situation where the grid is no longer available.Any suggestions or tips are appreciated.Michael-- 

Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmorningstar at gmail.com
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Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmorningstar at gmail.com
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Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmorningstar at gmail.com
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