[RE-wrenches] GT w/ BB

Tue Sep 19 11:08:01 PDT 2023

Storm Copper has tables.

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com

On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 7:13 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Thx Michael
>
> How do you calculate buss bar size?
> Is there a specific formula or table I can find?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
> On Sep 18, 2023, at 5:15 PM, Michael Morningstar <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
> I've been making gutter bus wireways that run the length of batteries and
> inverters allowing for exact lengths of cables. I think I posted a picture
> of an exceptionally large one. 24' long. I'm looking at the rack mounted
> set up because the bussing and cabling is done. 3 racks of 6 5kwhr
> batteries. All I will need is cabling from the racks to a small (in size)
> bussbar
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:50 PM Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a good design.
>>
>>
>> As a tangent question to 13 parallel batteries, such as you’ll need
>> Michael.
>>
>> How are people wiring larger numbers of lithium batteries together in
>> parallel?
>>
>> Massive buss bars which I’m not sure how to do in a code compliance way.
>> Or
>> Not worrying about different cable lengths?
>> Or
>> Adding another conductor to the farthest batteries to compensate for VD
>> Or
>> Making all the cables the same length?
>>
>> Thx
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2023, at 4:37 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Jay,
>> I'd like to design for 60kw supply and 100kWh battery. I think I'm going
>> to try the Discover rack mount set up rather than AES's and custom bussing.
>> Jason,
>> That's exactly what I was thinking, if I go the Sol-Ark route. Last time
>> I ordered custom panelboards like that, they were six months out.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:18 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If 40kw is the peak and then there are new added loads, what 50-60kw?
>>>
>>> If it was me I’d be designing the inverters to handle the 50/60 kw with
>>> future expansion capabilities beyond that.
>>>
>>> Then how much kWh of storage are you going to need or maybe are planning
>>> for?
>>>
>>> At some point maybe looking at a larger single inverter with high
>>> voltage battery vs 48v?
>>> I’m not sure if there are any 120/240 versions yet.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 18, 2023, at 12:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I like the Sol-Ark idea having had a few dual-unit successes recently.
>>> In terms of combining them, the Sol-ark manual has a good triple unit
>>> wiring diagram on page 53. You would have to use two 400A panelboards with
>>> three 200A breakers for each to follow this diagram. However, I don't see
>>> the point of a combining load center on the load side of the paralleled
>>> units. The Sol-Arks each have a 200A integrated load breaker, so why not
>>> just combine the outputs in a multi-tap connector or busbar? I think there
>>> is a code-compliant way to make that work, but I haven't studied it with
>>> three units.
>>>
>>> I would definitely ditch the SolarEdge inverters and just make it DC
>>> coupled to the Sol-Arks. You don't need these to be a failure point in the
>>> system, and the AC coupling will reduce the energy production in backup
>>> scenarios.
>>>
>>> It sounds like you would have to get the six 200 feeders out of the
>>> meter/main and into a new panelboard on the load side of the Sol-Arks. So
>>> that's another required load center.
>>>
>>> And if money is truly no object, I would consider a manual transfer
>>> switch to bypass the inverters for service. I'm afraid to look up what a
>>> 400A DPDT switch costs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:14 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been asked to build a back up system for a grid connected estate.
>>>> We haven't done many of these and I thought it best to ask those who have
>>>> some questions before I go about reinventing the wheel.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the existing infrastructure.
>>>> 1) 400amp Metered Main Distribution Panel with six 200amp feeders to
>>>> various sub-panels on the property
>>>> 2) 400amp ATS and 100kw Kohler rapid response generator
>>>> 3) 20kw ground mount array with (2) SE Inverters located at the array.
>>>> Feeder from array is 1,000 ft to Service. Six years old and wiring is janky.
>>>> 4) Data logging for the last year shows peak demands of almost 40kw.
>>>> This could increase as several of formerly vacant  guest residences could
>>>> be occupied.
>>>>
>>>> My go to is almost always Schneider, however in this instance when I
>>>> looked into a quad stack, or more It seems like some type of controller is
>>>> needed to prevent imbalanced current passing through the relays during
>>>> transfer. That left me a bit concerned. Has anyone successfully stacked 4
>>>> or more XWPROs?
>>>>
>>>> Then there is the matter of AC or DC coupling? I really want no part in
>>>> having anything to do with SE. The inverters are already looking pretty
>>>> weathered taking the brunt of the prevailing winds and storms (they are
>>>> mounted to one of the ground mount poles). Seems like a great waste to pull
>>>> out the 4/0 feeders and replace strings. My other hesitancy with AC
>>>> coupling is that we would lose PV monitoring and control.
>>>>
>>>> I've also considered Sol Ark 15's, like three of them. We've got some
>>>> SA systems under are belt now and the only thing I can say that I like is
>>>> the speed of installation and the 200amp pass through. Other than that,
>>>> they leave me uninspired. One very large system continues to have glitches
>>>> that SA just shrugs their shoulders about. If we were to do three 15's, *what's
>>>> the preferred combining method?* All that I can come up with is a
>>>> custom 400a panelboard w/ three 200a breakers.
>>>>
>>>> Price is not a consideration for this project. The new owners of this
>>>> property (which is plagued with outages) have tasked me with building
>>>> something that is ultra reliable and good take over in a situation where
>>>> the grid is no longer available.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions or tips are appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Michael Morningstar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Morningstar Electric
>>>>
>>>> PO Box 1494
>>>>
>>>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>>>>
>>>> 530-921-0560
>>>>
>>>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Morningstar
>>
>>
>> Morningstar Electric
>>
>> PO Box 1494
>>
>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>>
>> 530-921-0560
>>
>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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