[RE-wrenches] Bonding Metal Roofs Part II

Wed Jun 14 06:23:26 PDT 2023

Adam,
There are so few standing seam metal roofs here in central NY as compared
to Ag metal roofs. So I have not come across a standing seam roof in a few
years. For the Ag metal roofs, we aim to get just one lug up under the
ridge cap, and then at the bottom of the roof where the metal hangs over
the eave, we put in a small bolt with star washers where the metal panels
overlap. This bonds all the panels together, and then we pick up the ground
from the one lug at the top. If you can get under the seam at the bottom of
the panel (where you can get a star washer on each panel), then maybe you
can do something similar with the standing seam panels?

Cheers,
Dave

On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 8:45 AM AE Solar <autonomousenergies at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dave,
> Interested to hear how you all are complying with NYSERDA on bonding in
> the 3' perimeter outside of the array. Their QA team just points me towards
> the Illsco SGB-4 lugs, but sometimes there is no graceful way for us to
> install them. If we can't get easy access under a ridge cap to hide/protect
> the lugs, then the only other solution seems to be Michael's idea of
> running lugs/bare copper on the seams outside of the array perimeter (which
> sometimes includes whole other adjacent roof sections). Aside from being
> aesthetically unpleasant, I'm also skeptical that ice and snow won't grab
> onto the copper and tear the lugs off eventually...
> Adam
>
> Adam Katzman (he/him)
> Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator
> www.AutonomousEnergies.com <http://www.autonomousenergies.com>
> (518) 567-1468
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 2:33 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Also being in NYS, I have been familiar with this requirement for a long
>> time. I believe the idea is that just like how any metal part in a system
>> needs to be grounded, metal roof panels under solar panels are kind of part
>> of the system. What if a wire comes loose and touches the roof? You would
>> not want someone going up there to get zapped. I see the point that the
>> worst you can do with RSD is 80V. But in NY at least, you cant really argue
>> with NYSERDA if they decide they want this. I have never come across a
>> building or electrical inspector here that would care about this, but
>> NYSERDA does and that is where the incentive money comes from...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 2:34 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> But isn’t the whole concept of RS to prevent the energizing of say a
>>> metal roof?
>>>
>>> The inverter sees a ground fault or ark fault. Trips off line, the RS
>>> activate and now it’s less than 80v. Isn’t that what it’s supposed to do?
>>>
>>> What is the purpose of grounding the metal roof?
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2023, at 10:09 AM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> If I am not mistaken, this derives from some UL testing that showed that
>>> a metal roof may become energized during a thermal event.
>>>
>>> I suppose no less important than our RSD requirements...
>>>
>>> -Glenn
>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>
>>> ------ Original message------
>>> *From: *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
>>> *Date: *Tue, Jun 6, 2023 10:25 AM
>>> *To: *offgridsolar at sti.net;RE-wrenches;
>>> *Cc: *Jason Szumlanski;
>>> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Metal Roofs Part II
>>>
>>> I'm watching this thread with interest. Is anyone aware of any serious
>>> injury or property damage caused by an energized metal roof, and if so,
>>> what were the circumstances? Is bonding metal roofs a solution looking for
>>> a problem?
>>>
>>> In response to the ground mount alternative, that isn't really an option
>>> in many areas of Florida where the cost can be 50% higher or more to ground
>>> mount if it's even practical due to flood level. Tile and shingle roofs in
>>> Southwest Florida are being switched to metal at shocking rates in the wake
>>> of Hurricane Ian, and we love it from an installer's standpoint.
>>> Fortunately, I haven't run into any bonding inspection issues for over 10
>>> years here.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 8:28 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Adam,
>>>>
>>>> Creative solution #1  Do not install solar on any roof if you can
>>>> ground mount it.
>>>>
>>>> Is this He Adam or the Him Adam?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>>>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>>>> text 209 813 0060 <209%20813%200060>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2023-06-05 3:47 pm, AE Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I had started a thread about bonding to metal roofs in 2018 but can't
>>>> figure out how to respond via the archive. I know some things have changed
>>>> since then, so I'm circling back and starting a new thread.
>>>>
>>>> In NY one of our inspection agencies (NYSERDA) requires bonding of
>>>> metal roof panels below the array, as well as within a 3' perimeter of the
>>>> array. S-5! in combination with Ironridge is now listed to bond the roof
>>>> under the array (so long as you hit every pan with an attachment) but this
>>>> doesn't solve the problem of trying to bond within the 3' perimeter. For
>>>> installs where we are only 18" from the ridge, this means we are required
>>>> to bond the adjacent roof as well.
>>>>
>>>> Whenever possible we install Illsco SGB-4 lugs under the ridge cap. But
>>>> more and more we're finding roofs where the ridge cap feels inaccessible,
>>>> tricky, or where we simply don't want to get into roof warranty issues
>>>> associated with opening up a prior contractor's work.
>>>>
>>>> Wondering if anyone else is coming up against this and what some
>>>> possible creative solutions might be. I don't want to walk away from
>>>> potential projects but...
>>>>
>>>> As always, thanks for any thoughts
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Adam Katzman (he/him)
>>>> Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator
>>>> www.AutonomousEnergies.com <http://www.autonomousenergies.com>
>>>> (518) 567-1468
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> c: (607) 279-4258
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 279-4258
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