[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects
Jeff Clearwater
jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com
Wed Feb 1 10:31:55 PST 2023
Hi Esteemed Wrenchies,
Love this discussion.
It is clear to me after many years of watching this that the industry
needs to have an Emergency Shutdown standard that includes an emergency
shutdown of the BMS of every battery as well as the inverter's circuits
including MPPTs if all all-in-one.
We are pushing now for all battery and inverter manufacturers to include
this feature in their inverter communications so that if the inverter
emergency shutdown pins are shorted -every battery shuts down.
This would avoid the ridiculous requirement of every battery cable being
on a relay/contactor or bringing it to the outside of the house!
> Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> January 30, 2023 at 5:08 PM
> Wrenches.
> You might want to consider turning off the inverter as a solution to
> turning off the batteries, we have this feature as part of our
> installs with outback real simple then no chance of AC anywhere, Not
> going to pop a CC, no chance of run on and it has passed every time.
> Just a thought that's a safe solution. With Outback you just have to
> turn off the master nothing else.
> "Fun time in a crazy world"
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
> the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> January 30, 2023 at 10:54 AM
> Hey folks - love the Code, hate it, don’t care about it or follow it:
> it doesn’t matter to me. But if you want to change it you have to
> realize it is a process with rules and procedures, and posting on this
> list that “the NEC” should immediately “issue a memo” to do what you
> want or change what you don’t like has ZERO effect.
>
> Brian
>
>> On Jan 30, 2023, at 4:47 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think the discussion has forked at all. A solution to this
>> problem, and it is the best solution all things considered, including
>> firefighter exposure to 10 ft of conductors that I have a hard time
>> imaging them being exposed to, is for the NEC to issue a memo
>> IMMEDIATELY indicating that this section of the code is no longer to
>> be considered a requirement and that the next Code cycle will
>> eliminate this requirement.
>>
>> The other solutions discussed would only work for a few
>> configurations realistically and would introduce more danger. Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/29/2023 2:41 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> James, Brian and others:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for the lively discussion. I am always interested in
>>> my colleague’s perspectives and this has been illuminating.
>>>
>>> It appears to me the discussion has forked: One topic is how to
>>> deal with the reality of the new code regarding a very narrow
>>> scenario: ESS inside of a residence. The other topic is: has the
>>> NEC evolved to be overly restrictive without factual basis?
>>>
>>> Regarding the first topic, it’s in black and white that we must
>>> provide battery disconnecting means for energy storage systems
>>> located in one or two family homes if the battery voltage exceeds 60
>>> VDC. There are very few areas that do not adopt the NEC. If you
>>> install ESS you will eventually have to deal with this code
>>> requirement one way or another.
>>>
>>> Due to lax enforcement or unfamiliarity on the part of local
>>> building departments, some of you may be able to skirt this
>>> requirement. This is great until something happens. If your
>>> non-compliant installation causes a loss, you will end up in the
>>> defendants chair, not the building inspector.
>>>
>>> Here is how I approach these compliance conundrums: If I could
>>> argue the code does not apply or there is a good reason to waive the
>>> requirement; if the building official agrees; if I feel the
>>> installation is really and truly safe without meeting the
>>> requirement—only then could I proceed without the disconnect.
>>> Otherwise I am going to have to find a way to comply.
>>>
>>> As contractors, each of you makes those decisions every day: What is
>>> safe enough for my clients? If any of you think you know more than
>>> the people who write the codes, then install what you can get away
>>> with and keep your fingers crossed. I am not willing to live like that.
>>>
>>> Regarding the second topic: Are we being picked on by an overly
>>> scare-mongering NFPA?
>>>
>>> What is interesting here is that while most electrical codes are
>>> trying to prevent house fires, this particular section is trying to
>>> protect fire fighters after a fire starts (or an earthquake happens
>>> or a dump truck runs into your house, etc.).
>>>
>>> When California first adopted roof clearances for fire fighters, I
>>> got my feelings hurt because I was losing business and I did not
>>> understand what it takes to fight a house fire. I spoke with a few
>>> fire fighters and learned about roof and wall venting and how it is
>>> affected by prevailing winds. I came around to appreciate there is
>>> a real need for rooftop fire setbacks.
>>>
>>> It is self-evident why firefighters would not want to cut into a
>>> wall with a demo saw if there are energized, high amperage
>>> conductors in or on that wall. This code requirement for battery
>>> disconnecting means is fundamentally sensible. That ends the
>>> discussion for me.
>>>
>>> Oh, yeah, the charge controller blowing up thing: Does anyone have
>>> any factual data to share on this? Regardless of that, does it
>>> really matter if the charge controller is saved but the house burns
>>> down?
>>>
>>> The islanding thing: To be compliant, all ungrounded battery
>>> conductors need to be disconnected. This includes the charge
>>> controller circuit(s). With the charge controllers and inverters
>>> disconnected from the batteries and from each other there cannot be
>>> DC “islanding”.
>>>
>>> The house flooding thing: At the surface, it appears you have a
>>> choice of disasters: flood or fire. I submit that fire is more
>>> destructive (I don’t think many people have died from a ruptured
>>> water pipe). I don’t think it has to be either or: Find a way to
>>> provide emergency power to freeze protection devices with that
>>> disconnect waived or under key in cooperation with the fire
>>> department. This may mean the batteries need to remain connected.
>>> Put those leads in metal raceway and mark their locations from the
>>> outside. Work with building and fire officials. Limit your liability.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all of you for the discussion. I know what I need
>>> to do.
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>> *From:*James Jarvis [mailto:jj at aprsworld.com]
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2023 7:03 PM
>>> *To:* Brian Mehalic
>>> *Cc:* RE-wrenches; william at millersolar.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects
>>>
>>> Brian and William,
>>>
>>> With all due respect, I think your geographical location of
>>> California may be limiting in your understanding of the implications
>>> of local power security.
>>>
>>> Where I am in Minnesota and where I work in Alaska, loss of power
>>> and backup power can have very expensive consequences. When it is
>>> -30F outside and howling wind, buildings only have a matter of hours
>>> before their interiors will drop below freezing. A few hours after
>>> that pipes start to freeze and break. Pressurized water then starts
>>> to spray everywhere and then things can very quickly run into
>>> six-figure dollars amounts of damage. So one way of reducing this
>>> risk is by installing an ESS.
>>>
>>> Around here, prior to the latest NEC, we didn't have exterior
>>> disconnects available for anyone to shut off power. We still don't
>>> for businesses.
>>>
>>> My point is that NEC is mandating that there be zero security of a
>>> buildings electrical systems by requiring publicly accessible
>>> disconnects on backup systems. And if NEC wasn't so prescriptive,
>>> there could be slightly more secure alternatives such as a KNOXBOX
>>> or access controlled disconnects.
>>>
>>> William: I also disagree with your premise that you'll test the
>>> battery disconnect system after dark. That's not a test; that's just
>>> cheating. You had a knowledge person tell you that the MPPT
>>> controllers can and do blow up when they lose their voltage
>>> reference (battery) under load. And removing the battery from the
>>> circuit does allow the charge controllers to island with the
>>> inverter and DC loads and do other damage. I know of a telecom
>>> customer that had hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage when
>>> their battery became disconnected. If you are unwilling to test it
>>> at full load, I'd guess you know that the whole concept is a dumb idea.
>>>
>>>
>>> -James Jefferson Jarvis
>>> APRS World, LLC
>>> +1-507-454-2727
>>>
>>> http://www.aprsworld.com/
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 7:35 PM Brian Mehalic
>>> <brian at solarenergy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Every single house I’ve looked at in my town has a breaker panel
>>> with a main service disconnect on the outside of the house
>>> already. So in many cases we are well beyond worrying about
>>> someone “flicking your switch!”
>>>
>>> In fact, in addition to the emergency disconnect requirement for
>>> stationary standby batteries [480.7(B)] and ESS [706.15(B)] in
>>> one- and two-family dwellings, also added in 2020 was the
>>> requirement for an emergency disconnect for services on those
>>> same one- and two-family dwellings [230.85].
>>>
>>> Brian Mehalic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2023, at 5:58 PM, James Jarvis via RE-wrenches
>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be nice if the decision was up to the owner /
>>> occupant of the property. I, for one, do not want any random
>>> person to be able to turn off my house or business with the
>>> flick of a switch. I feel strongly that there is far too
>>> much fear mongering in NEC with relation to renewable energy.
>>>
>>>
>>> -James Jefferson Jarvis
>>> APRS World, LLC
>>> +1-507-454-2727
>>>
>>> http://www.aprsworld.com/
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 6:22 PM William Miller via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Esteemed wrenches:
>>>
>>> Well if my house is on fire and the entry of fire
>>> responders is delayed for lack of a disconnect, I choose
>>> having the disconnect. I can worry about the charge
>>> controllers later.
>>>
>>> Others may prioritize their charge controller over their
>>> homes…
>>>
>>> Put a cable-tie lock in the closed position to
>>> discourage kids from messing with it. Test it only after
>>> dark.
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 2:32 PM William Bryce
>>> <wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> All
>>>
>>> One thing that no one is talking about is what
>>> happens to the MPPT charge controllers when the
>>> Battery Disconnect trips when the charge controllers
>>> are under full load.
>>>
>>> Many will blow up. Try turning off the battery
>>> breaker on a SolaArk when the charge controllers
>>> are maxed, and see if you get lucky.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 3:27 PM William Miller via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeremy:
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting the code references for those
>>> that had never looked them up.
>>>
>>> Chris:
>>>
>>> What do you mean by “a disconnect for AC wiring,
>>> not specific to which or both panel types”?
>>>
>>> All:
>>>
>>> Code references are handy when receiving edicts
>>> from building officials, but not required, IMHO,
>>> for two reasons: The contractor should already
>>> be versed in the codes and, building departments
>>> can mandate their own requirements above and
>>> beyond the code.
>>>
>>> It may seem redundant to require an AC
>>> disconnect for premise wiring as well as a DC
>>> battery disconnect. In most cases if you
>>> disconnect the inverter from the batteries the
>>> AC power goes off. However if the generator is
>>> running at the time, some battery inverters can
>>> operate when disconnected from batteries. So to
>>> completely de-energize all components of an
>>> off-grid home you need to disconnect the
>>> generator and the battery leads.
>>>
>>> In this case the home is required to have fire
>>> sprinklers. There is pressure pump to provide
>>> flow to these fire sprinklers-- said pump being
>>> powered by the inverter/battery system. I am
>>> going to apply for a waiver to remove the DC
>>> disconnect requirement on the grounds that the
>>> pressure pump is essential fire suppression
>>> equipment. Instead I will propose to supply an
>>> AC disconnect (meeting all requirements for
>>> accessibility and marking) that will disconnect
>>> all premise wiring except the pressure pump.
>>>
>>> By the way, I will of course be trying to apply
>>> the logic that the voltage specification is for
>>> nominal battery voltage and this project having
>>> a nominal 48 volt bank does not require the
>>> battery disconnect.
>>>
>>> I will let the group know what response I
>>> receive. Regardless of how this works in this
>>> jurisdiction, I think these are both valid
>>> arguments worth trying in any jurisdiction
>>> requiring the battery disconnect. Some officials
>>> are amenable to dialog and negotiation and some
>>> are less so.
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>> *From:*RE-wrenches
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2023 10:12 AM
>>> *To:* cwarfel at entech-engineering.com; RE-wrenches
>>> *Cc:* Jeremy Rodriguez
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery
>>> disconnects
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *2020 Code Language:*
>>>
>>> /*480.7 DC Disconnect Methods.*/
>>>
>>> /*(A) Disconnecting Means.*/*//*/A disconnecting
>>> means shall be provided for all ungrounded
>>> conductors derived from a stationary battery
>>> system with a voltage over 60 volts dc. A
>>> disconnecting means shall be readily accessible
>>> and located within sight of the battery system./
>>>
>>> /*N*/*//(B) Emergency Disconnect./ /*/For
>>> one-family and two-family dwellings, a
>>> disconnecting means or its remote control for a
>>> stationary battery system shall be located at a
>>> readily accessible location outside the building
>>> for emergency use. The disconnect shall be
>>> labeled “EMERGENCY DISCONNECT”./
>>>
>>> */N/(C) Disconnection of Series Battery
>>> Circuits./ /*/Battery circuits exceeding 240
>>> volts dc nominal between conductors or to ground
>>> and subject to field servicing shall have
>>> provisions to disconnect the series-connected
>>> strings into segments not exceeding 240 volts dc
>>> nominal for maintenance by qualified persons.
>>> Non-load-break bolted or plug-in disconnects
>>> shall be permitted./
>>>
>>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>>>
>>> Solar Installation / Design
>>>
>>> All Solar, Inc.
>>>
>>> 1453 M St.
>>>
>>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>>>
>>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and
>>> shorthand.
>>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2023, at 7:28 AM, Christopher Warfel
>>> via RE-wrenches
>>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems confusing that the AHJ is requiring a
>>> disconnect for AC wiring, not specific to
>>> which or both panel types, and then a dc
>>> disconnect with no code reference. Was
>>> trying to convey a reasonable, safe
>>> approach. A lot of bad information from
>>> fire department solar consultants making a
>>> lot of money fear mongering, which has led
>>> to this type of situation. Chris
>>>
>>> On 1/27/2023 3:35 PM, William Miller via
>>> RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> Glenn:
>>>
>>> As I wrote, a DC disconnect is
>>> required. Here is an excerpt from the
>>> Q&A with the building official:
>>>
>>> 4.Will you be requiring an external
>>> disconnect to disconnect the AC output
>>> of the inverter system from premise wiring?
>>>
>>> Yes, as required per 230.85
>>>
>>> 5.Will you be requiring an external
>>> disconnect to disconnect batteries from
>>> the inverters?
>>>
>>> Yes
>>>
>>> If the DC disconnect was not required I
>>> would not be wasting everyone’s time
>>> with my post. I try to be careful about
>>> that, researching on my own before
>>> posting and trying to make my questions
>>> very clear. I also try not to embarrass
>>> myself with dumb questions, but that
>>> does happen occasionally…
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>> <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>> *From:*RE-wrenches
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM
>>> *To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches
>>> *Cc:* Glenn Burt
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote
>>> battery disconnects
>>>
>>> Does the AHJ really want the batteries
>>> disconnected from conductors, or does he
>>> really just want the inverters to stop
>>> operating and producing AC within the house?
>>>
>>> Obviously there is a big difference here
>>> and it may be changing as the code evolves.
>>>
>>> -Glenn
>>>
>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please
>>> excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>
>>> ------ Original message------
>>>
>>> *From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches
>>>
>>> *Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM
>>>
>>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>>
>>> *Cc: *William Miller;
>>>
>>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery
>>> disconnects
>>>
>>> Friends:
>>>
>>> We have a large-ish residential off-grid
>>> system install coming up. The AHJ has
>>> said they will require a remote battery
>>> disconnect. I suspect there will be
>>> fire sprinkler controls and a pressure
>>> pump that would become inoperable if
>>> this system were engaged. In this case
>>> we will apply for a waiver.
>>>
>>> The last time this was discussed here as
>>> far as I can find was October of 2020.
>>> At that time no one suggested any
>>> specific battery disconnect equipment.
>>>
>>> To further clarify my needs: There will
>>> be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5 or 6
>>> 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and
>>> two 175 amp PV recombiner outputs. That
>>> is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.
>>>
>>> The battery array will be either a
>>> UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand yet
>>> to be determined. In the case of lithium
>>> we will look for a system that can
>>> remotely enable a BMS shutdown. In the
>>> case of a VRLA lead-acid, we will not
>>> have that luxury.
>>>
>>> I have done some considerable research
>>> and have not found viable, high
>>> amperage, remotely activated shutdown
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> I am wondering what hardware others may
>>> be using to achieve remote battery
>>> disconnecting in these types of cases..
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600 <tel:805-438-5600>
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>> <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here:
>>> http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When
>>> one doesn't work, try the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>> Miller Solar.com
>>> 895-438-5600
>>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one
>>> doesn't work, try the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
>>> work, try the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>> the other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> January 30, 2023 at 6:46 AM
>
> I don't think the discussion has forked at all. A solution to this
> problem, and it is the best solution all things considered, including
> firefighter exposure to 10 ft of conductors that I have a hard time
> imaging them being exposed to, is for the NEC to issue a memo
> IMMEDIATELY indicating that this section of the code is no longer to
> be considered a requirement and that the next Code cycle will
> eliminate this requirement.
>
> The other solutions discussed would only work for a few configurations
> realistically and would introduce more danger. Chris
>
>
>
> On 1/29/2023 2:41 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
> the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20230201/a3275453/attachment.htm>
More information about the RE-wrenches
mailing list