[RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel from battery bank
Kevin Pegg
KPegg at energyalternatives.ca
Tue Jul 19 12:57:01 PDT 2016
Hi August,
From my knowledge on the XW there is no means to update firmware through the SCP, nor is there a means to log into the SCP via web browser. Perhaps you are thinking of systems that have the Combox installed which does add that functionality. That device allows for very simple and (so far) failure-free firmware upgrades. I have recently completed several remote upgrades - ie ship the customer the pre-programmed Combox and have them connect it to Xanbus / Internet and I execute the updates remotely - takes about 15 minutes for a system with numerous devices. The inverter will power down during this upgrade so do need to plan for that. (a good time to use the inverter bypass and run off generator directly).
The USB dongle is self-powered by Xanbus, and it does have a DC input if you were using it to program a standalone device such as the AGS module which does not have its own power supply. It can be programmed using XW Config Pro (simpler, more foolproof) or XDT which is much more powerful and capable of causing havoc if not used correctly.
The programming can be tricky and confusing for this type of set up. Once figured out, it does work well in this configuration.
Kevin
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers
Sent: July-19-16 6:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel from battery bank
Dan,
I went through what sounds like a similar situation with a XW+ recently. Ours had the Schneider charge controllers, not Outback, so I’m not sure how the two would interface in your situation.
You should be able to update firmware through the SCP, call Schneider support for help. You basically log into the SCP via a web browser and then download the firmware and update the XW.
Schneider tech support was confused internally about what charge/float settings to have us setup for a standard grid tied battery backup system. The first setting they recommended was called two-stage and long story short, it allowed the battery to drain before charging it back up again. We switched the setting to three-stage and now the batteries remain topped of and ready for an unexpected power outage.
As others have mentioned, it is the normal setup to have the protected (or critical) loads fed through the XW. However, during normal on-grid operation this is simply an AC pass-through and it shouldn’t discharge the batteries.
There are other settings you’ll need to get right as well. As William said, be prepared to talk on the phone for a while with tech support and make it really clear to them how you and the owner want the system to function. If it’s like most normal grid tied battery backup systems, the owner wants the batteries topped off in case of an unexpected power outage (this charging comes from the AC side when the grid is up) and then wants to feed all the PV energy to loads and back to the grid just like a normal grid tied inverter.
Best,
August
Luminalt
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Dan Fink
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 6:12 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ always feeding critical loads subpanel from battery bank
It has SCP.
Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342<tel:970.672.4342>
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Maverick Brown <maverick at mavericksolar.com<mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com>> wrote:
Dan
Does it have System Control Panel (SCP)? If not, it's a must.
It's like having an Outback inverter with no Mate or a big LCD TV with no remote.
Thank you,
Maverick
Maverick Brown
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
SunFlow Systems
Office: 512-919-4493<tel:512-919-4493>
Cell: 512-460-9825<tel:512-460-9825>
Sent from an iPhone.
On Jul 18, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com<mailto:danbob88 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks you for your help. I'm a poor off-grid guy. This should be a learning experience then....the one time I visited the system around 10:AM,, both CCs were in Bulk, and no grid blackout the night before.
Methinks I should also borrow a programming dongle from a colleague for this one....
Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342<tel:970.672.4342>
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Maverick Brown <maverick at mavericksolar.com<mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com>> wrote:
Dan
Barring some non-factory-default settings, they are not likely running on battery power at night.
When the grid is up, the inverter will go silent at night (asleep) [with --- three dashes on its LED display]. That's good.
During the day, the inverter will "prevent" the battery voltage from going above its sell voltage (unless some other mode is on like Grid Support or Standby, etc.) The charge controllers will attempt to Absorb & Float, but the inverter will offload the energy by keeping the voltage at the Sell setting. I generally set Sell to the recommended Float Voltage++. I set the charge controller float to 1.0v higher and Absorb as appropriate.
There is a lot more to unpack here.
Flooded batteries will consume a good amount of power just to maintain float.
As a defense against sulphated plates forming, I program the inverter EQ button for a heavy Absorb / mild EQ and instruct the customer to press it (every other month opposite month from watering??)
Are you getting 20-25 kWh per day in production?
PS having the inverter always feed the critical loads panel is exactly it's intended use.
Thank you,
Maverick
Maverick Brown
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
SunFlow Systems
Office: 512-919-4493<tel:512-919-4493>
Cell: 512-460-9825<tel:512-460-9825>
Sent from an iPhone.
On Jul 18, 2016, at 6:50 PM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com<mailto:danbob88 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Maverick; it's 6.0 kW of PV, 2 Midnite Classic 200s, Conext XW+ 5548, and 8 Crown Embassy VRSLA 6CEA390 for 390 amp-hours, 48v. Concerns me to be cycling those batteries every night when it's not supposed to happen as per the permit package.
"Notes - Battery Backup: During an outage, an automatic transfer switch in the inverter opens the grid interconnect, isolating the inverter from the utility to prevent back-feeding the local power lines. The inverter then draws from the battery bank to provide AC power to the backup sub-panel. Battery power is only used to provide power to the backup sub-panel. The Battery inverter only sells energy to the grid from the solar array when available and not from the battery bank. The battery backup inverter is UL 1741 and IEEE 1547 compliant."
Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342<tel:970.672.4342>
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Maverick Brown <maverick at mavericksolar.com<mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com>> wrote:
Dan
Does the inverter go silent at night? (---) on the inverter display?
There are lots of settings that can influence sell amount.
What type and size is the battery bank?
What is the solar size?
Thank you,
Maverick
Cell: 512-460-9825<tel:512-460-9825>
Sent from an iPhone.
On Jul 18, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com<mailto:danbob88 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Installer went out of business, all I have to troubleshoot with is an as-built 3-line that "may or may not be right." The charge controllers are a pair Midnite Classic 200s. Customer complained that system selling only 2/3 of what was predicted back to the utility; that appears to be because everything out of his critical loads subpanel is running off the battery bank all night, every night, grid or no, so it takes 1/3 of the day to get the batteries charged up again every day and start selling to the grid.
I have very little experience with the XW+ thus my question for the folks here. My plan for next week is to show up, make my own as-built 3-line, and recommission the inverter. Anyone else seen this sort of thing before? Hard to believe that an electrician would mis-wire or not wire the bypass, I'm thinking software setting.
Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
970.672.4342<tel:970.672.4342>
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