[RE-wrenches] SnapNrack

[Kurt Johnsen]

Esteemed Wrenches,
Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than
squeeze tube anti-seize?

My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are
put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for
any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches
helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins
cannot afford.

Kurt Johnsen

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:

>  Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the
> clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the
> SS hardware.
> We now hand torque those connects.  Finally, most torque specs are for
> lubricated bolts.  We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing.
> Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module
> damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing
> the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
>
>  Chris,
>  It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding "tooth" dug
> through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the
> frame enough to break the glass?  If that is the case then i'm betting that
> the clamp bolt was way over-torqued.
>
> You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for
> the racking system you are using.  For example, what we are using these
> days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and
> here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module
> mfgrs....
> Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb
>  Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb
>  JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb
>  These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame.
> I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening
> torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion.
>
> We had a module break after clamping it down.  The crew described it as
> 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab
> the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound
> (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a
> few minutes).  The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a
> particular mid clamp.  I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and
> checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few
> ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking.  I
> found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that
> appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb.
>  Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using
> cordless impact drivers.
>  At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench
> as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper
> torque.  (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self
> "re-calibrated" often.
>
>
>  *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> [image: email] <benn at skyfireenergy.com> [image: facebook]
> <https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy> [image: twitter]
> <https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy> [image: linkedin]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5>
>  [image: google] <https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/>
>
> [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester <chris at solarwindworks.com
> > wrote:
>
>>  Hi Jason,
>>
>> Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with
>> the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp
>> points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to
>> module through clamp.”
>>
>> We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG
>> 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it
>> was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the
>> module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it.
>>
>> I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac
>> midclamps potential for doing the same damage?
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Worcester
>>
>> Solar Wind Works
>>
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>>
>> Office 530-582-4503
>>
>> Cell 530-448-9692
>>
>> Fax 530-582-4603
>>
>> www.solarwindworks.com
>>
>> chris at solarwindworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>
>>
>>
>> That decision was based on our distribution network offering better
>> pricing on Unirac, and engineers being comfortable with it. Now with the
>> integrated grounding from Unirac, I can't see moving away from it again
>> barring a significant cost benefit. It also stacks and stocks easier than
>> the Ironridge rails.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Dana Brandt <dana at ecotechenergy.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> We've used Unirac for years but have been contemplating Ironridge. I'm
>> curious what your experience was and why you went back to Unirac?
>>
>> Anyone else have input on best racking systems for flush-mounted
>> residential systems on comp roof?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>   Dana
>>
>> Dana Brandt
>> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
>> www.ecotechenergy.com
>> dana at ecotechenergy.com
>> 360.318.7646
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jason Szumlanski <jason at fafcosolar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> By Snap N Rack, you mean Sun Run...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/05/sunrun-acquires-rec-solars-residential-business-aee-solar-snapnrack-means/
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm curious if these vertical integrators will still make their acquired
>> brands available to small dealers through distribution. When SolarCity
>> snatched up Zep, I had concerns about being able to service or add onto
>> existing Zep systems we installed. That's definitely a concern going
>> forward, and reason to perhaps stick with the most compatible racking
>> solutions available. We used IronRidge for a while, which is largely
>> compatible with Unirac, but now we're back on the Unirac bandwagon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting times...
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>> ​Fafco Solar​
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Max Balchowsky <max at seesolar.com> wrote:
>>
>> We have been using Snap N' Rack for a while, Have lots of installs in
>> Hawaii - so far no problems, I like the convenience of the design for
>> snapping in the slider nut in mid rail, and also the ability to install the
>> panels flush with the end of the rails….
>>
>>
>>
>> Max Balchowsky
>> Design Engineer
>> SEE Systems
>> 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
>> Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
>> 760-403-6810
>>
>> "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
>>
>>
>>    ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Allen Frishman <amfrish at aeonsolar.com>
>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:17 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>
>>
>>
>> I am curious about the mid clamps on the snapnrack.   The flange that
>> rests on top of the solar panel frame is so small ~ 3/16".    Anyone
>> experience any problems with these failing in a big storm?    With solar
>> panel frames not being square it is nice to have a little extra to grab - I
>> am always curious as to why these clips are made with such a small area to
>> hold the panels down.
>>
>>
>>
>> All feedback on these clips is appreciated.
>>
>> *Al Frishman*
>> AeonSolar
>>
>> *(917) 699-6641 <%28917%29%20699-6641> - cell*
>> *(888) 460-2867 <%28888%29%20460-2867>*
>> *www.aeonsolar.com <http://www.aeonsolar.com/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Max Balchowsky wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>   Have installed last three systems (35Kw)with snap n rack.
>>
>> love it....
>>
>>
>>
>> Max Balchowsky
>> Design Engineer
>> SEE Systems
>> 1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
>> Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
>> 760-403-6810
>>
>> "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
>>
>>
>>    ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Solarguy <ntrei at 1scom.net>
>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 10:11 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>
>>
>>
>> The only complaint with the Snapnrack rails is the thin wall can easily
>> be distorted. This will allow the nut to drop out of its groove. Love the
>> universal end clamps but have learned to assemble every one to check for
>> proper fit before getting on the roof.
>>
>> Jim Duncan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
>> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake
>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 7:32 PM
>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>>
>>
>> How would you rate the SnapNrack mounting systems against Unirac and
>> other mounting systems?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Drake
>>
>>
>>
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