[RE-wrenches] Metering

Mon Sep 29 19:01:40 PDT 2014

All,

        Great points and a little education of others' feelings about, essentially how granular we need to be in monitoring.   

        I'm curious who is monitoring the Enphase systems in the solar world, seriously.  I know 95% of my customers are more concerned about catching the bus or what's for dinner than if PV #8 has bird crap on it.  Do the folks at Enphase, through Enlighten have some software that spots issues?  I know I, as an installer don't have time for it.  My experience is the customer notices their power bill was higher last month, they take a look at the inverter and no green light...CALL BILL.

        Thanks folks for the resources for meters, din rail too.

Bill

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Glenn Burt 
  To: 'RE-wrenches' 
  Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 5:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering

  I would not classify what we are doing in PV as SCADA.

  It is purely data acquisition at this point, and more commonly referred to as DAS or a Data Acquisition System.

  SCADA by its definition entails a two way path of both receiving data and being able to send control signals, usually from a big picture program, monitoring dozens of data points.

  Let's not try to make the simple into a more complex thing than it is.

  -Glenn

  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
  Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 2:31 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering

  The 2nd problem with the Envoy besides cost is that it isn't always reliable.    Communication through power lines is not a new or fresh idea, and has Always been problematic.  Once you install something you are expected to make it work, and that can be a nightmare on say an 8 module system that keeps losing communication to one or two modules.  I've had this exact case, and confirmed multiple times that each micro was working, but the Envoy had other ideas.
  This rush to mega data acquisition makes sense for larger PPA systems, but can just add tons of call backs and the resulting financial losses and frustrations for small systems.
  I've spent as much time messing with SCADA, as I have with the entire install itself; now that's ridiculous.  This isn't new either:  I had  SCADA systems back in the 90s, that had great promise, but ultimately were extremely hard to implement, and the customer never used after anyway......
  The question is: 
  What does the customer really need to operate the system vs. "bells and whistles".....

R.Ray WaltersCTO, Solarray, IncNabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master ElectricianSolar Design Engineer303 505-8760On 9/29/2014 12:12 PM, August Goers wrote:

    Hi Bill,

    One of the largest benefits of the microinverter system, in my opinion, is the ability to monitor each module individually. It might seem like ~$500 is a lot for the Envoy but I think it is well worth it when you think about the 25 year warranty period and included ongoing monitoring. We've had enough Enphase failures that I would personally really want to be able to keep my eye on each micro individually.

    Just a thought, August

    From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of frenergy
    Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:26 PM
    To: RE-wrenches
    Subject: [RE-wrenches] Metering

    CA wrenches,

            I'm trying to (for the sake of my monetarily impaired customers) figure out a less expensive way to meter/monitor small enphase systems.  One of my local utilities will allow me to just use a remanufactured utility-grade meter (ala AEE) These meters are inexpensive, robust and accurate but only display total production.  

            The Envoy retails for over $5 bills.  Most of my customers are not interested in checking their PV system on the internet, well not after a couple weeks.  I can't seem to find any requirement from PG&E other than in Section 5.1 of the guidebook: " All systems receiving an EPBB incentive must install a production meter accurate to +- 5% of actual system output...."       which is pretty vague.  plus the is no CSI incentive  anymore.

            Anybody have a suggestion that is different from the remanu utility meter?....and possibly gives current wattage output, and is "approved" by PG&E interconnection?

    TIA

    Bill

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