[RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant... again (is sealant code defensible?)

Fri Apr 11 14:14:47 PDT 2014

Hi Ray,

Ten plus years ago, I observed this one thermal installation which also 
used the Oatey flexible gasket. Most all the 80's era installs had 
seriously deteriorated gaskets _except_ this one where the homeowner had 
painted everything with latex paint. That gasket was not deteriorated 
and was still flexible. That small UV film barrier was really beneficial.

Automotive CV boots are available with a split for replacement use. I'm 
told that if you allow the glue to dry properly (without moving the 
steering wheel) it works as good as the non split model. I would not be 
surprised if a similar product exists for plumbing/electrical 
penetrations. With paint, that should be the last gasket replacement.

Good luck all,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

On 11-Apr-14 3:15 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
> It definitely depends on the flashing.  The Oatey type with the rubber 
> gasket die after several years, and leak.
> For our installations, it really depends on the roof.  In some cases 
> with metal roofs, a flashing can't really have the overlap needed, and 
> so it just becomes a big gooed on L foot really.
> Also, I look at L feet as a small 2" x 2" flashing.  Relative to the 
> hole size this is often a reasonable amount of sealing surface.  
> Compare this to your average 4" plumbing penetration vs the size of 
> the flashing.   Look at how bulk head fittings on water tanks work.  
> They're under several feet of water, and depend on a rubber gasket, 
> not a flashing.
>
> I also consider what's under the roof too.  A leak on an open carport 
> is not as much liability as a leak over the vintage Steinway grand piano.
> Finally, if the roof is already having problems, (I love when they 
> say: "it only leaks when it rains"......)  you need to look at re 
> roofing, and have the roofer seal around your mounts.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/11/2014 1:52 PM, Will White wrote:
>>
>> I've had a similar experience as August.
>>
>> We're using Ecofasten Green Flashing plus all holes get a dab of 
>> Geocel Proflex.  We've also never had a problem with a properly 
>> flashed penetration.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Will
>>
>> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
>> *August Goers
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2014 3:44 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant... again (is sealant 
>> code defensible?)
>>
>> Hi Troy,
>>
>> There has been an ongoing debate on the RE-Wrenches list on this 
>> issue for years now. I've personally serviced many old L-feet systems 
>> that are fine and some that are leaking. The leaks normally occur in 
>> the missed holes adjacent to the L-foot. Also, many installers were 
>> using Sikaflex which over time loses its adhesion to comp shingles. 
>> Sloppy work is the worst culprit.
>>
>> We've used all sorts of flashings over the years and primarily stick 
>> with Quickmount E-series these days. All holes, both hits and misses, 
>> are squirted with M-1 sealant (from Chemlink) and we slide aluminum 
>> flashing (standard rolls of aluminum cut to size in the field) under 
>> the shingles for the missed holes.
>>
>> We've never had a leak with a properly flashed system and I am a 
>> strong proponent for using flashing products for all mounting points.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> Luminalt
>>
>> *From:*re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of 
>> *Troy Harvey
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2014 12:20 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant... again (is sealant 
>> code defensible?)
>>
>> 1. I'm interest in a poll of installers who are using flashings vs 
>> sealant. Now that the flashing market has evolved, what are you using 
>> today? When did you switch to flashings (if you did). And why not, if 
>> you still prefer sealant.
>>
>> 2. Is there a any code defense for sealant systems ? (L-foot sealed 
>> down to shingles). Does anyone know of a scientific shootout between 
>> sealants and flashings?
>>
>> Here is my view: The construction industry is slow to evolve. 
>> Sealants, clauks & adhesives are not trusted in general, due to the 
>> legacy of code, and we have a mechanical vs. chemical industry bias.
>>
>> There is something about seeing a flashing that says, that is a 
>> "professional job", it must comply with code. And yet, my experience 
>> says I'd trust a 50-year silicone over a flashing that depends on 
>> gravity. Gravity should be dependable right? But anyone in snow 
>> country can tell you in spring, water can go uphill after ice dams 
>> form. There are high-rise buildings that use "structural glazing" 
>> which is just glass and silicone. These systems are now getting to be 
>> 50 years old without issue.
>>
>> The cost of flashings have come down in the last few years, but so 
>> has the cost per watt of installs. With 50 feet in a typical install 
>> around here that is $150 in feet, lags & silicone. Or $1500 in 
>> flashings, and extra labor. That can be a large part of a bid, and 
>> make you more expensive in a competitive landscape. That is fine, if 
>> it adds value... but I personally don't see the /proven/ value, other 
>> than the "appearance" of code defensibility. Anybody have proof?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Troy Harvey
>> ---------------------
>> Principal Engineer
>> Heliocentric
>> 801-453-9434
>> taharvey at heliocentric.org <mailto:taharvey at heliocentric.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3882/7332 - Release Date: 04/11/14
>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4355 / Virus Database: 3882/7332 - Release Date: 04/11/14
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20140411/2c69bfe2/attachment-0004.html>