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Hi Ray,<br>
<br>
Ten plus years ago, I observed this one thermal installation which
also used the Oatey flexible gasket. Most all the 80's era
installs had seriously deteriorated gaskets _except_ this one
where the homeowner had painted everything with latex paint. That
gasket was not deteriorated and was still flexible. That small UV
film barrier was really beneficial. <br>
<br>
Automotive CV boots are available with a split for replacement
use. I'm told that if you allow the glue to dry properly (without
moving the steering wheel) it works as good as the non split
model. I would not be surprised if a similar product exists for
plumbing/electrical penetrations. With paint, that should be the
last gasket replacement.<br>
<br>
Good luck all,<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094</pre>
On 11-Apr-14 3:15 PM, Ray Walters wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:53484D55.7080804@solarray.com" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It definitely depends on the
flashing. The Oatey type with the rubber gasket die after
several years, and leak.<br>
For our installations, it really depends on the roof. In some
cases with metal roofs, a flashing can't really have the overlap
needed, and so it just becomes a big gooed on L foot really.<br>
Also, I look at L feet as a small 2" x 2" flashing. Relative to
the hole size this is often a reasonable amount of sealing
surface. Compare this to your average 4" plumbing penetration
vs the size of the flashing. Look at how bulk head fittings on
water tanks work. They're under several feet of water, and
depend on a rubber gasket, not a flashing.<br>
<br>
I also consider what's under the roof too. A leak on an open
carport is not as much liability as a leak over the vintage
Steinway grand piano.<br>
Finally, if the roof is already having problems, (I love when
they say: "it only leaks when it rains"......) you need to look
at re roofing, and have the roofer seal around your mounts.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
On 4/11/2014 1:52 PM, Will White wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I’ve
had a similar experience as August.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We’re
using Ecofasten Green Flashing plus all holes get a dab of
Geocel Proflex. We’ve also never had a problem with a
properly flashed penetration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>August Goers<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 3:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs
Sealant... again (is sealant code defensible?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Hi
Troy,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">There
has been an ongoing debate on the RE-Wrenches list on this
issue for years now. I’ve personally serviced many old
L-feet systems that are fine and some that are leaking.
The leaks normally occur in the missed holes adjacent to
the L-foot. Also, many installers were using Sikaflex
which over time loses its adhesion to comp shingles.
Sloppy work is the worst culprit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">We’ve
used all sorts of flashings over the years and primarily
stick with Quickmount E-series these days. All holes, both
hits and misses, are squirted with M-1 sealant (from
Chemlink) and we slide aluminum flashing (standard rolls
of aluminum cut to size in the field) under the shingles
for the missed holes. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">We’ve
never had a leak with a properly flashed system and I am a
strong proponent for using flashing products for all
mounting points. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">August</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Luminalt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Troy Harvey<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 11, 2014 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Flashing vs Sealant...
again (is sealant code defensible?)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. I'm interest in a poll of installers
who are using flashings vs sealant. Now that the flashing
market has evolved, what are you using today? When did you
switch to flashings (if you did). And why not, if you still
prefer sealant.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. Is there a any code defense for
sealant systems ? (L-foot sealed down to shingles). Does
anyone know of a scientific shootout between sealants and
flashings?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is my view: The construction
industry is slow to evolve. Sealants, clauks &
adhesives are not trusted in general, due to the legacy of
code, and we have a mechanical vs. chemical industry
bias. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is something about seeing a
flashing that says, that is a "professional job", it must
comply with code. And yet, my experience says I'd trust a
50-year silicone over a flashing that depends on gravity.
Gravity should be dependable right? But anyone in snow
country can tell you in spring, water can go uphill after
ice dams form. There are high-rise buildings that use
"structural glazing" which is just glass and silicone.
These systems are now getting to be 50 years old without
issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The cost of flashings have come down
in the last few years, but so has the cost per watt of
installs. With 50 feet in a typical install around here
that is $150 in feet, lags & silicone. Or $1500 in
flashings, and extra labor. That can be a large part of
a bid, and make you more expensive in a competitive
landscape. That is fine, if it adds value... but I
personally don't see the <i>proven</i> value, other
than the "appearance" of code defensibility. Anybody
have proof?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">thanks,<br>
<br>
Troy Harvey<br>
---------------------<br>
Principal Engineer<br>
Heliocentric<br>
801-453-9434<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:taharvey@heliocentric.org">taharvey@heliocentric.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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