[RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

Mon Aug 5 16:03:36 PDT 2013

Re: FNDC vs. Pentametric, well now that you pose the question, it probably really boils down to personal preference and experience. I have installed a big pile of Pentametrics and it has been easy and they have worked really well, and my few experiences with the FNDC have been messy, although not through any fault of the equipment or OutBack. The FNDC just didn't work the way I thought it should, and it serves me right for not reading the manual more closely BEFORE I installed the thing.

I have always liked the 'fuel gauge' effect of the Pentametric display unit, which we typically put out where the customer will walk by it often. I guess some people put the MATE3 remote from the inverter room, but I would personally probably not ever recommend this. Also, I suppose the LAN/www connection options could serve this purpose well, but I don't have as much experience with it yet. I don't know, the online connections and monitoring are fun and novel for a bit, but I imagine people lose interest pretty quickly. I think having a box on the wall that gives you a snapshot into your battery bank's life every time you walk by has a lot of value.

Plus IMHO Bogart is just an awesome company. Not necessarily the most compelling reasons in the big picture...

Would be very much interested in info on some of your custom bypass solutions!

-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nathan at arcticsun-llc.com <mailto:nathan at arcticsun-llc.com>  | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com<http://www.reina-llc.com/> | www.arcticsun-llc.com<http://www.arcticsun-llc.com/>
[cid:image001.png at 01CE91E6.49581CE0]<http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC>

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 2:01 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

Nathan:

Thanks to you and all the others for the speedy replies.  We installed one single Radian and I will never again buy a pre-wired GSLC.  The wiring was sloppy and it is unrealistic to try and cram the AC and DC switching into one or two of these cabinets.

More and more frequently we forego using the standard BOS AC Cabinets for AC distribution and instead go directly into standard outboard AC cabinets.  This is true for FX, SW, MX and Radian installations.  Here's how we used to do this with SW inverters:  http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/full_size_photos/3_input_sw.JPG

We have been designing and building our own bypass interlock brackets.  With some aluminum stock, a band saw and a little ingenuity we have been able to build any interlock we need.  For this installation we will back-feed the generator into an extra breaker in the inverter-fed panel  We will interlock it with the two inverter fed breakers and have a very reliable and inexpensive bypass.  I am fixing to do an article on my web site featuring the various interlock solutions we have built.

(This is off the subject, but one can use a single phase panel to handle the output distribution for a 120 only inverter system as well as provide a bypass.  One bus is inverter fed and the other is gen fed.  Properly configured breakers with an interlock provide the bypass capabilities.)

I am curious about why you would recommend the Petametric.  It handles only three shunts just like the FNDC.  I understand you can install an unlimited number of charge controllers to the FNDC (and maybe the Pentametric as well) as long as you shunt the combined negatives with any shunt having the correct amps/mv ratio.  The FNDC integrates with the Mate 3 which seems desirable to me over the Pentametric.  Comments?

Again, thanks to everyone.

William

[cid:image003.jpg at 01CE91EC.F5C79450]
17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600 voice*
*Note: above number replaces cell number

________________________________
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stumpff
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 2:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install
We have installed one dual Radian system. We looked at the prewired distribution boxes from OutBack (MidNite's wasn't out yet at that time) but they had no bypass solution for two inverters. We ended up using an external 100 A, 2 pole, double throw safety switch for an AC bypass from the generator feed, a little spendy but the only thing we could come up with. The newer MidNite E-Panel Master & Slave setup deals with the bypass, I haven't gone through to price it out to see if it makes sense yet, but I bet it does, especially since you can use dinrail breakers instead of all panel mount, as is the case with OutBack.

Not sure if you like or are planning on using the FlexNet DC, but on our install we had two inverters and two charge controllers, so the otherwise convenient triple-shunt-busbar option (OutBack) didn't really do much for us. Kinda dumb you can't use two FlexNet DCs... When I do it again I would probably steer the customer towards a Pentametric.

Ditto to the comments on the firmware upgrade and spacing the inverters. Next time I will definitely use a few nipples between the distribution boxes, the doors are way too tight when spaced right next to each other.

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20130805/b8621a98/attachment-0004.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2272 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20130805/b8621a98/attachment-0007.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 3502 bytes
Desc: image003.jpg
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20130805/b8621a98/attachment-0007.jpg>