[RE-wrenches] Desulfator question; Battery Warranty

Fri Apr 27 11:12:20 PDT 2012

Larry and Rest,

            This is a great thread as I've often wondered if the
"DeSulfator" units were actually working. I first saw these back when I was
in the Marine Corps. So if I understand it correctly the inverters filtering
on the DC buss cancels out the effect of the D unit. Kind of always
approached it as a black box but because the cost was so small that I looked
at them as cheap insurance when compared to the cost of a replacement
battery bank. I'll be the first to admit that I have always sold the D with
all our new battery systems. In my mind with a D unit on a new battery bank
this would ensure that the battery plates would be kept clean of sulfation.
Of course this is on top of regular charging, and maintenance. Now I've
never seen what the wave form would look like on a scope and would ask that
the next time you or any other wrench have the opportunity to please provide
us with a picture of the scopes screen with a D unit on just the battery and
then one when connected to the inverter. Additional I'd ask for a picture of
what you D unit looks like on the scope also. As they say a picture is worth
a thousand words. I should state that 95% of our battery systems are lead
acid in the range of 500 to over 1300 amp hours in size @ a 20 hour rate.

Thanks,

Chris Schaefer

Solar & Wind FX

5115 South Hill Road,

Canandaigua NY 14424

585-229-2083

www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>  

  _____  

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Crutcher,Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 12:41 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Desulfator question; Battery Warranty

Hi Dan,

When you think about it, a battery will not be under warranty and need a
desulfator at the same time. Here's why: All battery manufacturers state
that the warranty is void if a battery is has not been charged properly.
Here is the Trojan pertinent warranty text: THE PROVISIONS OF THIS LIMITED
WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY TO FAILURE DUE TO: .... Abuse or neglect....
insufficient charging (undercharging or overcharging).

Lead sulfate is an amorphous powder. When there is no charge current
flowing, lead dioxide, lead and sulfuric acid react and make lead sulfate on
the positive plate. When a battery is properly and fully charged (key
words), including equalization charges, all of the lead sulfate is converted
back to sulphuric acid, lead dioxide and lead. 

It takes many months of deficit charging for the lead sulfate to harden to
the point that proper voltage, current and time (more key words) can not
convert it back. This is the point in a batteries life where a desulfator
might be of use; to break down the crystalline structure formed due to the
neglect.  So, there is not a need for a desulfator circuit if the battery is
healthy and being charged properly. If you do need a desulfator, it will
always be due to causes that make the warranty void. 

Larry Crutcher

Starlight Solar Power Systems

On Apr 26, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Dan Fink wrote:

Wrenches;

I wrote an Ask the Experts column on the topic for Home Power Magazine a
year or two ago, and contacted Trojan Battery for more information. The
Trojan tech rep said that any desulphator, chemical or electrical, would
void the Trojan warranty. I don't remember which issue my article was in,
but Trojan provided some other compelling reasons to avoid desulphators. I
am traveling right now and don't have access to my back issues.

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail) 

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Allan Sindelar
<allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

Wrenches,
I have not recommended battery desulfators, as I haven't been genuinely
convinced that they work. I'm not asking to be convinced in this post.
Rather, for those among us who do recommend and use them, what is your
recommended brand and model for a large (1675 amp-hour) 48-volt flooded
battery bank? A customer has inquired.
Thank you,
Allan

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