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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Larry and Rest,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
This is a great thread as I’ve often wondered if the
“DeSulfator” units were actually working. I first saw these back
when I was in the Marine Corps. So if I understand it correctly the inverters
filtering on the DC buss cancels out the effect of the D unit. Kind of always
approached it as a black box but because the cost was so small that I looked at
them as cheap insurance when compared to the cost of a replacement battery
bank. I’ll be the first to admit that I have always sold the D with all
our new battery systems. In my mind with a D unit on a new battery bank this
would ensure that the battery plates would be kept clean of sulfation. Of
course this is on top of regular charging, and maintenance. Now I’ve
never seen what the wave form would look like on a scope and would ask that the
next time you or any other wrench have the opportunity to please provide us
with a picture of the scopes screen with a D unit on just the battery and then
one when connected to the inverter. Additional I’d ask for a picture of
what you D unit looks like on the scope also. As they say a picture is worth a
thousand words. I should state that 95% of our battery systems are lead acid in
the range of 500 to over 1300 amp hours in size @ a 20 hour rate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris Schaefer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Solar & Wind FX<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>5115 South Hill Road</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Canandaigua</span></font></st1:City><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <st1:State
w:st="on">NY</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">14424</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>585-229-2083<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/">www.solarandwindfx.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Larry Crutcher,Starlight Solar Power Systems<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 27, 2012 12:41
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
Desulfator question; Battery Warranty</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Dan,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>When you think about it, a battery will not be under warranty and need
a desulfator at the same time. Here's why: All battery manufacturers state that
the warranty is void if a battery is has not been charged properly. Here is the
Trojan pertinent warranty text: THE PROVISIONS OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY
SHALL NOT APPLY TO FAILURE DUE TO: .... Abuse or neglect.... insufficient
charging (undercharging or overcharging).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Lead sulfate is an amorphous powder. When there is no charge
current flowing, lead dioxide, lead and sulfuric acid react and make lead
sulfate on the positive plate. When a battery is properly and fully
charged (key words), including equalization charges, all of the lead
sulfate is converted back to sulphuric acid, lead dioxide and lead. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>It takes many months of deficit charging for the lead sulfate to harden
to the point that proper voltage, current and time (more key words) can not
convert it back. This is the point in a batteries life where a desulfator might
be of use; to break down the crystalline structure formed due to the neglect.
So, there is not a need for a desulfator circuit if the battery is
healthy and being charged properly. If you do need a desulfator, it will always
be due to causes that make the warranty void. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><br>
Larry Crutcher<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Starlight Solar
Power Systems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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</span>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></span>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Apr 26, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Dan Fink wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Wrenches;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I wrote an Ask the Experts column on the topic for Home Power Magazine
a year or two ago, and contacted Trojan Battery for more information. The
Trojan tech rep said that any desulphator, chemical or electrical, would void
the Trojan warranty. I don't remember which issue my article was in, but Trojan
provided some other compelling reasons to avoid desulphators. I am traveling
right now and don't have access to my back issues.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dan Fink,<br>
Executive Director;<br>
Otherpower<br>
Buckville Energy Consulting<br>
Buckville Publications LLC<br>
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers<br>
970.672.4342 (voicemail) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at
12:06 PM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank">allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Wrenches,<br>
I have not recommended battery desulfators, as I haven't been genuinely
convinced that they work. I'm not asking to be convinced in this post. Rather,
for those among us who do recommend and use them, what is your recommended brand
and model for a large (1675 amp-hour) 48-volt flooded battery bank? A customer
has inquired.<br>
Thank you,<br>
Allan<span class=hoenzb><font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#888888" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#888888'>-- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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