[RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing

[David Brearley]

The lesson here might be: Use the right tool for the job.

NABCEP probably limits battery-based system questions to 5% of its test
questions these days. The test reflects the market. You can totally pass the
test without battery-based system knowledge; it helps if you have it, of
course, but most PV system installers these days don¹t. Let¹s be honest. The
experience on this listserve is not representative of the market at large.
Off-grid system integration is so specialized that hiring Larry the
Wirewiz‹who has worked installing stand-alone power systems on boats for 30
years‹probably makes more sense in this case than hiring a NABCEP Certified
Master Electrician, especially if the company they work for does grid-tied
work as a rule. 

My personal opinion is that voluntary NABCEP Certification is so much
better, especially for experienced PV professionals, than the other options.
I¹m glad the people within the industry took the initiative to try and set
some sort of benchmark or standard for solar installers. Without it, the
only benchmark is state licensing, which in many cases doesn¹t provide solar
installers with a specialized track. The NABCEP test isn¹t perfect‹big
surprise‹but let¹s be realistic about the limits of any multiple choice
test. As far as NABCEP hurting anyone¹s business, that seems like a stretch
to me. Customer¹s don¹t know what NABCEP is. It¹s unlikely that it will be
adopted as some sort of national licensing standard.

The same cannot be said for UL or the UL Certification for PV installers,
which I suspect is a much more likely to marginalize experienced, veteran
solar installers than NABCEP is. When I look into my crystal ball, I see
solar bozos, NABCEP certified or not, competing against UL Certified PV
Installation Companies, that are all licensed electrical contractors, likely
new to solar. Off-grid systems is one of the few places where I see solar
bozos coming out ahead in that competition. Everyone recognizes UL, even if
they don¹t know what it means or does.

If you don¹t want to be NABCEP Certified, don¹t take the test. But I don¹t
see where bashing an organization that is trying to do something to
legitimize or mainstream this industry deserves any contempt either.

This is just my opinion and not the opinion of my esteemed employer. And I¹m
not trying to offend anyone, either. I just see a lot of wrinkles to this.

Sorry for the rant,

David Brearley

On 2/8/11 2:04 PM, "holtek at sbcglobal.net" <holtek at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  
> My electrician was out of pocket, so I hired a master electrician with NABCEP
> citification from a highly reputable company to complete a battery based
> system for me with the expectation that he would:
> 1) verify that my initial design would be to code and within proper operating
> parameters
> 2)  change any components that did not satisfy his interpretation of code and
> make recommendations to any performance issues
> 3) communicate these changes to me so that I could have specified components
> on site upon his arrival or in a timely manner so that the job may be
> completed within the time frame allotted
> 4) verify all components were installed to either initial or modified specs
> and to code
> 5) turn on system to verify all components were operating properly
>  
> What I got was:
> * Array wired incorrectly -  he had written instructions. 20 modules to  be 5
> strings of 4, he wired array 4 strings of 5...the CC's front end  mosfets
> appear to be fried due to overvoltage....
> * ground conductor not run to combiner at array
> * "make do" fittings at combiner - they were "job-site adjusted" - not  liquid
> tite 
> * battery cable not run to shunt
> * grounding not completed at power shed (system was turned on without this
> being done) 
> * improper grounding at house sub-panel
> * Mate plugged into inverter port 3 at Hub
> * No twisted pair run from CC to shunt
> * many times that I arrived on site there was much looking around in the
> trailer to find "something that would work" ....a "certified" guy should know
> what is on the trailer and that it's properly inventoried before it  goes to
> site...
> I didn't need to pass a test to find these errors that have cost me a pretty
> big chunk of money....we all have bad days, but, come on, man.
>  
> Conclusion....some people are good at passing tests, but not so good in the
> field. 
>  
>  
> sent anonymously as possible to protect the innocent....
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  Dana <mailto:dana at solarwork.com>
>>  
>> To: 'RE-wrenches' <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:46  AM
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP  marketing
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> The  questions that are presented on the Nabcep ³Problem² solving are short
>> on  realistic info and designed to really be multiple guess. Does this really
>> qualify folks for the real world or just real guessing.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Dana  Orzel
>>  
>> Great Solar Works,  Inc
>>  
>> E  - dana at solarwork.com
>>  
>> V  - 970.626.5253
>>  
>> F  - 970.626.4140
>>  
>> C  - 970.209.4076
>>  
>> web - www.solarwork.com <http://www.solarwork.com>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> "Responsible Technologies  for Responsible People since 1988"
>>  
>> Do  not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through  action.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> From:  re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Warren
>> Lauzon
>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:46 PM
>> To:  RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP  marketing
>>  
>>  
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>> From what I see,  NABCEP is heavily hardware oriented, with only a smidgen of
>> actual problem  solving and/or theory. It totally falls apart with battery
>> based systems,  generally way undersizing them.
>>  
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>> The actual  electrical knowledge required is minimal except for code and
>> wiring/hardware  issues. Being certified will not make you capable of much ­
>> if any ­ real  troubleshooting.
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>> From: Nick  Soleil <mailto:nicksoleilsolar at yahoo.com>
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>> Sent:  Monday, February 07, 2011 2:16 PM
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> To: RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Subject: Re:  [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
>>  
>>  
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>>     To  become NABCEP certified, you only need to have installed 2 PV
>> systems.  1  of those systems can be at a training class, and the other can
>> be on your  brothers house.  All that NABCEP Certified means is that I
>> studied a list  of questions, and then passed the test.  It is good to know
>> that a  handrailing should be 39"-45" tall, and not 36"-42."  However, that
>> should not come with any title, like 'Certified PV Installer.'
>>      The experience requirements should be more  stringent.  If it required
>> some real experience, it would mean something,  but NABCEP wants as many
>> participants as possible, so anyone can sit for  it.
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>     
>>  
>> Nick Soleil
>> Project  Manager
>> Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
>> PO Box  657
>> Petaluma, CA 94953
>> Cell: 707-321-2937
>> Office:  707-789-9537
>> Fax: 707-769-9037
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>> From:  Dave Palumbo <dave at independentpowerllc.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches  <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Sent: Mon, February 7,  2011 11:10:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP  marketing
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Larry,
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> It¹s  easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone¹s marketing
>> these  days. It¹s OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my
>> opinion).  NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment
>> brought some  good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some
>> good things in  your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on
>> the first take. 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> David  Palumbo
>>  
>> Independent  Power LLC
>>  
>> 462  Solar Way Drive
>>  
>> Hyde  Park, VT 05655
>>  
>> www.independentpowerllc.com <http://www.independentpowerllc.com>
>>  
>> NABCEP  Certified PV Installer
>>  
>> Vermont  Solar Partner
>>  
>> 23  Years Experience, (802) 888-7194
>>  
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>> From:  re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
>> wirewiz at gmail.com
>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54  AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is  Union Based? That's news to me!
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> I  spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level
>> exam, so  I have that.
>>  
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>> 
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>> I  spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I
>> failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this
>> time.
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>> I'm  62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking
>> tests.  When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't
>> have to rely  on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on
>> boats for 30  years.
>>  
>>  
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>> I'm  sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a
>> competitive  person and the ad ticked me off.
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>> Larry  Liesner
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>> Wirewiz
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>> Westport,  CT
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>> Phone:  203-644-2404
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>> Fax:  203-557-0556
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>> wirewiz at gmail.com
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>> www.wire-wiz.com <http://www.wire-wiz.com>
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>> On  Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote:
>>  
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>> 
>> Larry
>>  
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>> My PE  is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a
>> considerable  "edge" over my competition because I have invested the time
>> energy and went  through the stress of taking the exam.  It is the same way
>> with NABCEP, I  have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and
>> stress to get the  qualification.  I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the
>> time and effort  to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and
>> effort, it is  good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that
>> away from me,  because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a
>> break!  You  have the right to run your business and promote it as you see
>> fit and so do  I!  Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of
>> course  not.  If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the
>> business.  Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where  we
>> all are continually learning more and growing as an industry.   Otherwise
>> there would not be much use in this blog at all.  All an exam  really means
>> is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and  take the
>> exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism.  It is about  time our
>> industry grows up!  Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all  have the
>> opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can  be.  I
>> applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to  invest the
>> considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it  off.  If you can
>> do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me  about it being
>> unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying  to do for this
>> industry!
>> 
>> Bill
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

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