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<FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>The lesson here might be: Use the right tool for the job. <BR>
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NABCEP probably limits battery-based system questions to 5% of its test questions these days. The test reflects the market. You can totally pass the test without battery-based system knowledge; it helps if you have it, of course, but most PV system installers these days don’t. Let’s be honest. The experience on this listserve is not representative of the market at large. Off-grid system integration is so specialized that hiring Larry the Wirewiz—who has worked installing stand-alone power systems on boats for 30 years—probably makes more sense in this case than hiring a NABCEP Certified Master Electrician, especially if the company they work for does grid-tied work as a rule. <BR>
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My personal opinion is that voluntary NABCEP Certification is so much better, especially for experienced PV professionals, than the other options. I’m glad the people within the industry took the initiative to try and set some sort of benchmark or standard for solar installers. Without it, the only benchmark is state licensing, which in many cases doesn’t provide solar installers with a specialized track. The NABCEP test isn’t perfect—big surprise—but let’s be realistic about the limits of any multiple choice test. As far as NABCEP hurting anyone’s business, that seems like a stretch to me. Customer’s don’t know what NABCEP is. It’s unlikely that it will be adopted as some sort of national licensing standard.<BR>
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The same cannot be said for UL or the UL Certification for PV installers, which I suspect is a much more likely to marginalize experienced, veteran solar installers than NABCEP is. When I look into my crystal ball, I see solar bozos, NABCEP certified or not, competing against UL Certified PV Installation Companies, that are all licensed electrical contractors, likely new to solar. Off-grid systems is one of the few places where I see solar bozos coming out ahead in that competition. Everyone recognizes UL, even if they don’t know what it means or does.<BR>
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If you don’t want to be NABCEP Certified, don’t take the test. But I don’t see where bashing an organization that is trying to do something to legitimize or mainstream this industry deserves any contempt either. <BR>
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This is just my opinion and not the opinion of my esteemed employer. And I’m not trying to offend anyone, either. I just see a lot of wrinkles to this. <BR>
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Sorry for the rant,<BR>
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David Brearley<BR>
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On 2/8/11 2:04 PM, "<a href="holtek@sbcglobal.net">holtek@sbcglobal.net</a>" <<a href="holtek@sbcglobal.net">holtek@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<BR>
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My electrician was out of pocket, so I hired a master electrician with NABCEP citification from a highly reputable company to complete a battery based system for me with the expectation that he would:<BR>
1) verify that my initial design would be to code and within proper operating parameters<BR>
2) change any components that did not satisfy his interpretation of code and make recommendations to any performance issues<BR>
3) communicate these changes to me so that I could have specified components on site upon his arrival or in a timely manner so that the job may be completed within the time frame allotted<BR>
4) verify all components were installed to either initial or modified specs and to code<BR>
5) turn on system to verify all components were operating properly <BR>
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What I got was:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><UL><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Array wired incorrectly - he had written instructions. 20 modules to be 5 strings of 4, he wired array 4 strings of 5...the CC's front end mosfets appear to be fried due to overvoltage....
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>ground conductor not run to combiner at array
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>"make do" fittings at combiner - they were "job-site adjusted" - not liquid tite
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>battery cable not run to shunt
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>grounding not completed at power shed (system was turned on without this being done)
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>improper grounding at house sub-panel
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>Mate plugged into inverter port 3 at Hub
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>No twisted pair run from CC to shunt
</SPAN></FONT><LI><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>many times that I arrived on site there was much looking around in the trailer to find "something that would work" ....a "certified" guy should know what is on the trailer and that it's properly inventoried before it goes to site...<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></UL><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'>I didn't need to pass a test to find these errors that have cost me a pretty big chunk of money....we all have bad days, but, come on, man.<BR>
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Conclusion....some people are good at passing tests, but not so good in the field. <BR>
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sent anonymously as possible to protect the innocent....<BR>
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----- Original Message ----- <BR>
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<B>From:</B> Dana <<a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">mailto:dana@solarwork.com</a>> <BR>
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<B>To:</B> 'RE-wrenches' <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <BR>
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<B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:46 AM<BR>
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<B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="4"><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14pt'>The questions that are presented on the Nabcep “Problem” solving are short on realistic info and designed to really be multiple guess. Does this really qualify folks for the real world or just real guessing.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Dana Orzel<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Great Solar Works, Inc<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>E - <a href="dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a><BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>F - 970.626.4140<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>C - 970.209.4076<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>web - www.solarwork.com <<a href="http://www.solarwork.com">http://www.solarwork.com</a>> <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Century Gothic"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> <a href="re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Warren Lauzon<BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 07, 2011 8:46 PM<BR>
<B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing<BR>
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</SPAN><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>From what I see, NABCEP is heavily hardware oriented, with only a smidgen of actual problem solving and/or theory. It totally falls apart with battery based systems, generally way undersizing them.<BR>
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</SPAN><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>The actual electrical knowledge required is minimal except for code and wiring/hardware issues. Being certified will not make you capable of much – if any – real troubleshooting.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> Nick Soleil <<a href="mailto:nicksoleilsolar@yahoo.com">mailto:nicksoleilsolar@yahoo.com</a>> <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 07, 2011 2:16 PM<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>To:</B> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'> <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'> To become NABCEP certified, you only need to have installed 2 PV systems. 1 of those systems can be at a training class, and the other can be on your brothers house. All that NABCEP Certified means is that I studied a list of questions, and then passed the test. It is good to know that a handrailing should be 39"-45" tall, and not 36"-42." However, that should not come with any title, like 'Certified PV Installer.' <BR>
The experience requirements should be more stringent. If it required some real experience, it would mean something, but NABCEP wants as many participants as possible, so anyone can sit for it.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Nick Soleil<BR>
Project Manager<BR>
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC<BR>
PO Box 657<BR>
Petaluma, CA 94953<BR>
Cell: 707-321-2937<BR>
Office: 707-789-9537<BR>
Fax: 707-769-9037 <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> Dave Palumbo <<a href="dave@independentpowerllc.com">dave@independentpowerllc.com</a>><BR>
<B>To:</B> RE-wrenches <<a href="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Mon, February 7, 2011 11:10:21 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">Larry,<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">It’s easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone’s marketing these days. It’s OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE='font-size:11pt'><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">David Palumbo<BR>
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</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">Independent Power LLC <BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">462 Solar Way Drive<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">Hyde Park, VT 05655<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial"><B><I>www.independentpowerllc.com <<a href="http://www.independentpowerllc.com">http://www.independentpowerllc.com</a>> <BR>
</I></B></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">NABCEP Certified PV Installer<BR>
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</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">Vermont Solar Partner<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#1F497D"><FONT FACE="Arial">23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10pt'><B>From:</B> <a href="re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <B>On Behalf Of </B><a href="wirewiz@gmail.com">wirewiz@gmail.com</a><BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM<BR>
<B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. <BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off.<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'>Larry Liesner<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'>Wirewiz<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT FACE="Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:9pt'>Westport, CT<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>Larry<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12pt'>My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable "edge" over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry!<BR>
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Bill<BR>
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