[RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Fri Aug 19 11:33:57 PDT 2011

--- On Fri, 8/19/11, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com> wrote:

> The 
question is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations
> made by manufactures with respect to their ratings and product 
life?

Depends on what failed in the units.  Take failures in anything .. cars for example.  In 100,000 cars, let's say a manufacturer has a failure rate of 0.1%.  That's a total of 100 cars that will have problems.  If there are 100 different failed parts, it's luck of the draw.  If there are 80 cars that have the same part fail .. that's a different story.

Making equipment more robust, yet constantly lower in cost, are diametrically opposing goals.

Dan

From: Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Friday, August 19, 2011, 12:56 PM

Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements

Ray,

Here are the nameplate module rating vs nameplate inverter 
rating:

- 24 x 175 W = 4,200 W : IG4000 = 4,000 W : 105 
%
- 18 x 175 W = 3,150 W : IG3000 = 2,700 W : 117 
%
- 8 x 175 W = 1,400 W : SB1100 = 1,100 W : 127 % (sub-optimal 
orientation limits peak power levels)

I think it is fair to say that amps=heat=component aging. The 
question is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations 
made by manufactures with respect to their ratings and product 
life?

For instance, the 24 module system above lands well within the 
Fronius specifications for max DC power and is "Good" based on their online 
configuration tool, and also well in line the the SMA white paper of many years 
ago suggesting a 120% mod/inv ratio as optimal.

And yet, the first unit failed in 4 years and the refurb 
failed in 2 year.

Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 

303 Redbud Way 

Nevada City,  CA 
95959 
(530) 
401-8024 
www.berkeleysolar.com  

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray 
Walters
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:26 AM
To: 
RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter 
Replacements

Hi Mark;

In cases like that, I let the customer decide. My job 
is to present them with two or three streamlined options and let them 
decide.
It seems it comes down to cost vs continued warranty (and possible 
expandability?). Financial decisions ultimately need to be made by the people 
paying the bill.
>From a technical perspective, I don't ever present an option 
that I wouldn't be comfortable installing, and in the end everyone's happy. 
(hopefully)

Just curious; what are the array sizes relative to the 
inverter rating? I always wondered if inverters that were run at or over their 
rating didn't last as long as inverters that were run well below their rating. 
(just my stupid assumption that: more amps = more heat = less 
reliability)

Ray

On 8/19/2011 11:03 AM, Mark Frye wrote: 

  Folks, 
  Yesterday I took a trip through my service area and 
  initated 3 inverter replacement actions: 
  - A 6 year old Sunnyboy 1100W, 5 year warranty 
  expired, $360 for a refurbished unit w/ 1 year warranty, new replacement not 
  available
  - A 2 year old Fronius IG4000 refurbished, sent as 
  warranty replacement for unit failed at 4 years under 5 year warranty, now out 
  of warranty, est. $ 600 to refurbish with 1 year warranty
  - A 4 year old Fronius IG3000, under 10 year 
  warranty, warranty replacement and service fee provided by Fronius 
  I have to decide, what is best for my out of 
  warranty customers: 
  - Buy the refurbished units w/ 1 year 
  warranty 
- Buy new replacement units with 
  10 or 20 year warrranties 
- Buy entirely 
  new equipment such as Enphase or SolarEdge 
  What are other folks experiencing as we move well 
  past the 5 year warranty horizon for many of our earlier customers? 

  Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada 
  City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 

www.berkeleysolar.com  

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