<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">--- On <b>Fri, 8/19/11, Mark Frye <i><markf@berkeleysolar.com></i></b> wrote:<br><br><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">> The
question is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations<br>> made by manufactures with respect to their ratings and product
life?</font></span><br><br>Depends on what failed in the units. Take failures in anything .. cars for example. In 100,000 cars, let's say a manufacturer has a failure rate of 0.1%. That's a total of 100 cars that will have problems. If there are 100 different failed parts, it's luck of the draw. If there are 80 cars that have the same part fail .. that's a different story.<br><br>Making equipment more robust, yet constantly lower in cost, are diametrically opposing goals.<br><br><br>Dan<br><br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Mark Frye <markf@berkeleysolar.com><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements<br>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>Date: Friday, August 19, 2011, 12:56 PM<br><br><div id="yiv1479713065">
<title>Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements</title>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Ray,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Here are the nameplate module rating vs nameplate inverter
rating:</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">- 24 x 175 W = 4,200 W : IG4000 = 4,000 W : 105
%</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">- 18 x 175 W = 3,150 W : IG3000 = 2,700 W : 117
%</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">- 8 x 175 W = 1,400 W : SB1100 = 1,100 W : 127 % (sub-optimal
orientation limits peak power levels)</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">I think it is fair to say that amps=heat=component aging. The
question is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations
made by manufactures with respect to their ratings and product
life?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">For instance, the 24 module system above lands well within the
Fronius specifications for max DC power and is "Good" based on their online
configuration tool, and also well in line the the SMA white paper of many years
ago suggesting a 120% mod/inv ratio as optimal.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">And yet, the first unit failed in 4 years and the refurb
failed in 2 year.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="yiv1479713065375383917-19082011"></span> <br><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2">Mark Frye</font></span> <br><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2">Berkeley Solar Electric Systems</font></span>
<br><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2">303 Redbud Way</font></span>
<br><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2">Nevada City, CA
95959</font></span> <br><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2">(530)
401-8024</font></span> <br><span lang="en-us"></span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com/"><span lang="en-us"><u><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">www.berkeleysolar.com</font></u></span></a><span lang="en-us"><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></span> </div>
<div> </div><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv1479713065OutlookMessageHeader" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray
Walters<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 19, 2011 10:26 AM<br><b>To:</b>
RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter
Replacements<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>Hi Mark;<br><br>In cases like that, I let the customer decide. My job
is to present them with two or three streamlined options and let them
decide.<br>It seems it comes down to cost vs continued warranty (and possible
expandability?). Financial decisions ultimately need to be made by the people
paying the bill.<br>From a technical perspective, I don't ever present an option
that I wouldn't be comfortable installing, and in the end everyone's happy.
(hopefully)<br><br>Just curious; what are the array sizes relative to the
inverter rating? I always wondered if inverters that were run at or over their
rating didn't last as long as inverters that were run well below their rating.
(just my stupid assumption that: more amps = more heat = less
reliability)<br><br>Ray<br><br><br>On 8/19/2011 11:03 AM, Mark Frye wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">Folks,</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">Yesterday I took a trip through my service area and
initated 3 inverter replacement actions:</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">- A 6 year old Sunnyboy 1100W, 5 year warranty
expired, $360 for a refurbished unit w/ 1 year warranty, new replacement not
available</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">- A 2 year old Fronius IG4000 refurbished, sent as
warranty replacement for unit failed at 4 years under 5 year warranty, now out
of warranty, est. $ 600 to refurbish with 1 year warranty</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">- A 4 year old Fronius IG3000, under 10 year
warranty, warranty replacement and service fee provided by Fronius</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">I have to decide, what is best for my out of
warranty customers:</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">- Buy the refurbished units w/ 1 year
warranty</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">- Buy new replacement units with
10 or 20 year warrranties</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">- Buy entirely
new equipment such as Enphase or SolarEdge</font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">What are other folks experiencing as we move well
past the 5 year warranty horizon for many of our earlier customers?</font>
</p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">Mark Frye</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">Berkeley Solar Electric Systems</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">303 Redbud Way</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">Nevada
City, CA 95959</font> <br><font face="Arial" size="2">(530) 401-8024</font>
<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com"><u><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">www.berkeleysolar.com</font></u></a><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font> </p><br>
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