[RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..
Joel Davidson
joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net
Fri Jul 1 17:57:12 PDT 2011
Wrenches,
We've seen solar shutters displayed recently at two trade shows in the Los Angeles area. See http://plugnsaveenergyproducts.com/shutters/ The solar shutters use zip cord and the people at the shows were telling people to just plug the inverter into a wall outlet. I told them that they were violating the NEC and endangering people. They replied that ETL is testing their product and said it will get listed and be put on the CEC eligible module list. We asked how much power a solar shutter produces when mounted inside a window and getting light through the window and frame and if one shutter slat shades cells on the slat below it. They replied that their solar shutter works and seem to sincerely believe in their product.
Joel Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: R Ray Walters
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..
Even a bad solar installer isn't going to use cut up extension cords; that install was DIY or a "knowledgable" inebriated neighbor. I lived in the backwoods for many years, and saw even my own work get turned into horror systems.
As far as your competitor doing bad work, we had the same problem for years with a guy who was finally run out of Taos by the inspector and a growing list of angry customers.
He's now in California doing Wholesale Solar.
Your best bet is to turn him in to the AHJ for illegal contracting, along with pics of the work., but make dang sure he really did it. Enough complaints and eventually they'll get him.
Luckily much of the system can survive without OCP; the array is current limited and won't pop an OCP anyway, and the house wiring can't actually fry at 2500 watts continuous, so a battery wiring issue will be the most dangerous situation. (batteries on NEC systems are not really protected from the most likely dangers like a wrench being dropped across the terminals)
I've rewire dozens of such monsters, and you don't even want to have your fingerprints on it without having approval to completely rewire it.
Also, for budget cabin systems like that, we would often just supply parts and a wiring diagram, and let them keep the liability.
It can get cost prohibitive and unnecessary to bring the whole system up to NEC 2011, my own beautiful house has 103 yr old Knob & tube wiring that is going great. I only added AFCI breakers and replaced all the lights with low current CFs.
You have to suspend some of the code junky in you, and proceed with common sense, or don't proceed at all.
Definitely not for the faint of heart, Good luck,
R. Walters
ray at solarray.com
Solar Engineer
On May 7, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Jesse Dahl wrote:
Good point, and I guess I could see work like this from a homeowner, but this is from a "energy solutions" company in my area. I can fix the problems with the solar, some new parts, some conduit, pull some wire..
I just don't know what to do about this "energy solutions" guy. Show him why it's wrong, confront him....
Thanks,
Jesse
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2011, at 11:37 AM, "Jason Szumlanski" <Jason at fafcosolar.com> wrote:
Yeah – it can be scary. Retrofits/fix-its are the worst, but can be fun and profitable at times. Starting from scratch is usually the answer, reusing components if practical.
Word of caution… be careful not to harshly criticize work in front of the customer. Sometimes they claim that “another idiot PV installer” did the system, when in fact it was a DIY installation. You can be matter of fact about the safety hazards and code violations, but I’ve seen the look on a person’s face who obviously did it himself as I tore the system apart.
Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of dan at foxfire-energy.com
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..
Welcome to the Rodeo partner..
Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com
NABCEP #092907-44
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dangerous installs/installers..
From: Jesse Dahl <dahlsolar at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, May 07, 2011 2:45 am
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Wrenches,
The other day on my travels, I came across a very scary small stand-alone hunting shack install. All the wiring is cut extension cords and some UF, the cable from the charge controller to the batteries is an extension cord with the 14s paralleled. mice chewed wire, splices taped and laid on the ground, mis matched modules (least of the problems). not a disco or OCPD to be seen.
Also a 500W wind generator 100 yards from the battery bank, feed with #10s and then spliced to #12s (most of it just laying on the ground.
Now I think the owner should have some responsibility to stop work when the see things this awful, but what can/should we as an industry do about this? What do we say to people that install stuff like this? Take them to court?
A small 2500w with surge of 5000w inverter was used here with 6 paralleled 12V deep cycle batteries. Powering a few lights and a vacuum at first, a well pump was added later. I could see the lights and vacuum, but a pump? How do you go about wiring the output of an inverter like this? From a receptacle on the inverter to what? This guy cut an extension cord off and splice it to some NM and ran it inside to the loads. No breaker, I just can't get over the fact this guy sleeps at night...
You should see the photos of this mess...
Thank you for your thoughts,
Jesse
Sent from my iPhone
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